Firm But Thin Leather

[OurJud]

I know what I will be advised to do when I ask this question, so may I make it clear now that living in the UK, in the middle of the north west, my only real option for buying leather is online. Yes, it would be preferable to go and see and feel the different leathers in person, but as I say, not really an option.

Anyway, I need a firm but thin leather for my slim wallet project, and need some advice on suitable types.

In the past I've used 2mm cowhide which offers exactly the firmness I'm looking for, but is a little on the thick side. I've been looking at some leathers on etsy, from various animals including cow, at 1 to 1.4mm, but from the pictures it looks to be far too floppy for my needs.

This seller has lots: https://www.etsy.com/shop/PeggySueAlso?ref=shopsection_shophome_leftnav

Any advice on thin leathers that keep their shape and don't flop about would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Andrew Chee]

I think any vegetable tanned leather would generally fit your bill. The link you sent to Etsy all looked like chrome tan leathers which will not be as firm. Not really sure what look you're after though so hard to say.

Andrew

[OurJud]

Thanks, Andrew. I understand that without seeing it for themselves it's difficult for other members to fully appreciate the type of leather I'm seeking.

The leather wallet is going to be stitchless and have no pockets, so it really is nothing more than a shaped panel of leather.

These images show the prototype and you can see how the leather is holding it's shape (2mm). This is what I want to achieve, but with a thinner leather.

[Andrew Chee]

Can you buy direct from tanneries in the UK? In the US I would suggest some place like wickett and Craig where you can buy a single hide, have them split it down to any thickness you want and refinish the flesh side for you. Anyone off that service in the UK? Something else that comes to mind is finished calf skin but the only place I've seen that around here is from a French tannery.

Andrew

[OurJud]

I don't know of any and I don't have the money for that kind of service anyway. I have to think twice before spending $10, so we're talking VTB here.

[Toolingaround]

Hi OurJud

I second the thin tooling veg tan leather. I love it for small pocket ittems and it does retain its stiffness. I use about 3 oz (1.2mm). It carves beautifully too if your into that. I have even managed petal lifting on it. I have a credit card case that I made and have carried everyday for the last couple of years, still stiff. Like you, money is an issue and I can't afford any expensive high end leather either......sigh....so most of my stuff is from cheep tandy leather. Hope that helps.

Cheers, Toolingaround

[OurJud]

Thanks very much, Toolingaround.

Being new to leather, I'm not even sure what you both mean by 'veg tan' leather. Is this leather from a certain animal or does it refer to the process?

Having to work on a too-small desk in my living room also means I don't want the bother and expense of having to dye my leather. When I did a quick search for veg tanned leather just then, the stuff that was coming up was natural.

Edited March 2, 2014 by OurJud

[Chris B]

Veg-tan is the process of tanning it. I haven't seen any that has been pre-dyed. I am probably wrong with that though.

Chris

[OurJud]

I don't really understand why I'm finding it so difficult to find the leather I need.

When I decided to have a go at making some simple notebook covers the advice suggested 2mm was about the right thickness/weight. I headed over to eBay and found what I needed, in the right colour and at the right price, within 5 minutes!

All I want is the same stuff but slightly thinner and it's like it doesn't even exist. What leather I have managed to find at the right thickness looks too floppy

Edited March 2, 2014 by OurJud

[electrathon]

Vegetable tanned is the firm leather that usually used when tooling, and other things. Most of it is thicker, sometimes it is found down to about 3 ounce. Many of us split it thinner when needed.

The soft floppy leather is chrome tanned. It is used in upholstery and other things. The tanning process is cheaper and faster.

Veg tanned goat for bookbinding is what you really want, but it is much more expensive than the cow you have been looking at. It runs about $7-$8 a sq foot.

[OurJud]

Thanks, electrathon - that works out at about £5 a sq ft, which is doable as the piece of leather I need for the wallet only needs to measure about 9 x 20cm meaning I could get a few wallets out of 2 sq ft.

Thanks, I'll go and search for some goats.

Does it have to be veg tanned? I want it already dyed.

Found this on eBay, but again, even though the thickness is about right (1 - 1.2mm), it looks too floppy.

BARKERS HIDE & LEATHER N152 BLACK Soft kid goatskin nappa Textured Slightly waxy

Edited March 2, 2014 by OurJud

[TZHunter]

If you search "veg tan goat" on ebay, you'll come up with about 15 hides. I have not personally worked with veg tanned goat. When I need something like you are talking about , I normally take a thicker veg-tanned cowhide, and have it thinned/split to the needed thickness.

[OurJud]

Thanks, TZ, but I want leather that's already dyed (black or dark brown) and I don't have the money to start getting leather split.

[Chris B]

http://springfieldleather.com/34306/Side%2CHermannOak%2CBlack%2C8-10oz/ They can cut out what you would like and I do believe they will split it to the thickness you would like.

[benlilly1]

Maybe you need to make the wallet out of something else besides leather... Veg-tan has been recommended. The thinner you get the floppier it will be. You've asked lots of questions but no answer suffices. Not trying to be hard. Just my opinion.

[OurJud]

Maybe you need to make the wallet out of something else besides leather... Veg-tan has been recommended. The thinner you get the floppier it will be. You've asked lots of questions but no answer suffices. Not trying to be hard. Just my opinion.

But I've already explained veg-tanned is no use to me as I want leather that's already been dyed. If people would simply say that the leather I want doesn't exist, then I would stop asking questions.

http://springfieldle...k,8-10oz/ They can cut out what you would like and I do believe they will split it to the thickness you would like.

Sorry, don't know exactly know what you've tried to link to there, but it says 'page not found'. I've had a snoop around and from what I can gather prices would be a little steep for me, and that's before any shipping costs.

Edited March 3, 2014 by OurJud

[electrathon]

But I've already explained veg-tanned is no use to me as I want leather that's already been dyed. If people would simply say that the leather I want doesn't exist, then I would stop asking questions.

The only leather that you want is veg tanned. Most veg tanned cow is not colored, some is.

Whatever you decide to do, buying a leather that gives you a inferior to unusable outcome just to avoid buying a $5 bottle of dye seems sort of odd.

[OurJud]

But it doesn't end with the dye does it? I'd then need sealers and whatnot.

I'm not being purposefully argumentative here and I really do appreciate all the help, it's just frustrating because, as someone brand new to the craft, there's a lot I simply don't understand.

For instance, no one has explained to me why veg tanned doesn't come in the thickness I want, already dyed. If I can get 2mm cowhide in every colour under the sun, why can't I get 1 - 1.5mm veg tanned in all colours too?

Edited March 3, 2014 by OurJud

[benlilly1]

I don't mind helping answer questions but, I guess what is rubbing me the wrong way is you want all the answers (immediately) from all of us that have learned through instruction and diligently searching out the craft so you can make a wallet without all the work.

Edited March 3, 2014 by benlilly1

[humperdingle]

Have you looked at Le Prevo? http://www.leprevo.co.uk/hides.htm

Edited March 3, 2014 by humperdingle

[kevinp]

You could try here and ask if they have any off cuts for sale of the coloured finished shoulder.

http://www.metropolitanleather.com/shop/

[OurJud]

I don't mind helping answer questions but, I guess what is rubbing me the wrong way is you want all the answers (immediately) from all of us that have learned through instruction and diligently searching out the craft so you can make a wallet without all the work.

How can you say I want answers immediately? I post a question and then wait for an answer. I've never bumped a thread and reply gracefully to every reply I get. How is that demanding answers immediately?

And forgive me, but I thought forums were there so that people like me who are new to something can ask for help and advice?? If we all learned the craft 'the hard way' as you seem to be so proud of having done, people wouldn't need forums like this, would they?

May I suggest that if you feel you are flogging the proverbial dead horse, you refrain from replying to my threads

Have you looked at Le Prevo? http://www.leprevo.co.uk/hides.htm

Thanks, humperdingle. I like the prices there - UK based too. And they do dyed veg tan. I shall investigate them further.

You could try here and ask if they have any off cuts for sale of the coloured finished shoulder.

http://www.metropoli...ather.com/shop/

Another UK based company. Thank you.

Edited March 3, 2014 by OurJud

[Andrew Chee]

Couple of things. Stay away from things that say "napa". That usually denotes a very soft leather, for garments.

Veg tanning is simply a tanning process which usually results in a firmer type of leather (although that's just a general guide). Usually when you see something that just says "veg tan" it means be tanned leather that isn't dyed or finished. It is most often times used by crafts people who want to stamp/carve and have more control over the final product.

Bridle leather, harness leather. Those are terms used for veg tanned leather that have been dyed and finished. They are named so because they are designed for a particular purpose (for making bridles and harnesses). They usually don't come very thin because bridle and harness makers don't want thin leather.

The truth is, there isn't a lot of very thin, finished veg tan leather because there isn't a big market for it. Cow hide, when split down to the 1mm range loses most of its strength. Wallet and small goods makers that use it for card slots (I do) split it themselves down to that size. I understand that you want to make a wallet and want to use the right materials, but the truth is, it takes a lot of equipment to make the right product. For example, the exterior panel of your wallet. You don't want that to be 1mm because you wallet will fall apart rather quickly. You want it to be in the 1.5-2mm range. So now you will either have to buy two hides of two different thicknesses or have one hide and either make the card slots thicker than you like of the exterior thinner than you like. Or, you get a splitter.

So as for leather, this is why it's harder to find finished veg tan leather that's thin. That's why I suggested places like W&C that will split it for you. You can try calling dealers in the UK and ask them if they do splitting. Bear in mind, leather is dyed but the dye does not usually penetrate all the way through. So if split, the flesh side will be a light tan color. Tanneries have the ability it refinish the flesh side but distributors will not. This is why I like dealing with a place like W&C. They once allowed me to order a single hide where half of it was one thickness and the other half was another. Dunno if they still do that.

You can try calfskin which, because it comes from a younger animal has more strength when thinner than cow. The problem is I've yet to see finished veg tan calf. Maybe some people in Italy might do it. It would be beautiful (less blemishes) but will cost you an arm and a leg.

Anyways, hope this helps.

Andrew

[OurJud]

Thanks very much, Andrew.

I don't want to dwell on the unease between benlilly and I, and I must stress that all the answer so far have been helpful, but if I'd had a detailed reply like this earlier on, this thread would be half the length it is now.

Edited March 3, 2014 by OurJud

[Toolingaround]

Hi OurJud

I was thinking about what might work for you and had some other thoughts. Perhaps some of the wallet maker out there could let me know if I am on the right track.

I had purchased some of my tools and some scrap leather from an estate sale a couple of years ago. I have a couple of small scraps of a fairly firm, chrome tan, what looks like pig skin very very thin leather in black and dark brown. It is about 1 to 2 oz (.40 to .80mm). I think he had used it for the interior or his wallets. He had bought most of his tools and supplies from Tandy, Weaver and Hidecrafters. I think that it might be Mission Grain Pigskin Lining Leather or the Glazed Pigskin Lining Leather from Tandy or something like that. Both options would be very economical if you have a Tandy in the UK. Unfortunately I don't live anywhere close to a Tandy or I would go there and be able to identify the leather very easily.

Can anyone who has used the pig skin lining leather comment on the firmness of it for OurJud?

Here are the links to it:

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/department/leather/lining/9126-328.aspx

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/home/department/leather/lining/9128-329.aspx

Cheers, Toolingaround

PS as a starving artist type believe me I understand not having five dollars :-)