Fil Au Chinois Thread Problems

[Cletus2014]

Here's a photo comparing stitching I've done. The smaller, crookedy line is the Chinois 432 thread at ~9spi, the better straighter line is with 3 or 4 ply waxed linen at ~7spi. To me there's a dramatic difference both in the size and "fineness" of the stitching and the larger thread - which really isn't all that large - look far better for the spi size than the Chinois to me.

I can't imagine using an even smaller thread than the 432 and if this sample is any indication, I would only try the larger 332 if I even try Chinois again at all.

What do you think?

[DavidL]

top row is western style stitching, thicker and straight.

Bottom row is european style stitching that is harder to master. the stitch should touch from one end of the slit to the other, in this case bottom left hole to top right hole if you stitch towards your body.

Both give different looks.

Edited May 16, 2014 by DavidL

[mrtreat32]

is the top row set in a groove? Did you use a pricking iron for both?

I made a black wallet tonight with black fil au chinois thread which is a blessing and a curse since I cant tell very easily how the stitching came out since their isnt any contrast. But when I look closely under the light Its definitely a bit all over the place.

[Cletus2014]

David -

Yes, I agree with your comments about the different styles of stitch, but really there's no variation in the way I do it - I'm nowhere near that skilled yet! I did use a pricking iron in both cases, but no groove and I stitch with the work clamped in a pony and stitch toward myself. I push the awl through, then the backside needle, then the front side needle under and ahead of the other and pull tight. I watched the Hermes saddle stitch video a couple time and trying to emulate that technique. IOW, mark the stitch lines lightly with an iron, then push a sharp awl through each mark as I go, stitching toward myself. I keep the awl at about a 45deg angle to the edge of the work. In both cases, the front side stitching line comes out straight, or end to end and I get the angled pattern on the backside.

Here are two watch straps made last night and tonight. Last night's was using the Chinois thread and 9spi punch marks, tonight's was using the waxed thread and 7spi. No groove, lightly hammered flat after stitching. I like the strap I made tonight much better than the one with the Chinois threads and not only because the stitching is neater. The larger thread and stitch count just looks better proportioned to me for the size of the project. This is pretty much the crux of the issues I'm having with this Chinois thread. Even the 432 looks very small and fine to me, yet others are saying even finer thread should be used for a project like this. I just don't understand.

Let me know what you think....

[Cletus2014]

is the top row set in a groove? Did you use a pricking iron for both?

I made a black wallet tonight with black fil au chinois thread which is a blessing and a curse since I cant tell very easily how the stitching came out since their isnt any contrast. But when I look closely under the light Its definitely a bit all over the place.

Hi mrtreat32 - No, in this case I did not make a groove and I've generally found that I don't need one, as I continue to get better at stitching. I still have a ways to go yet!

I do use a couple cheap pricking irons, but only to make an impression on the front side to mark where my awl should go through. I'm getting a little better at stabbing the holes and getting them straight on the backside too, but it's only after some practice - muscle memory I guess. I'm contemplating shelling out a couple hundred on a set of Blanchard irons, but I'm not quite ready to take that plunge yet.

[LTC]

Here are two watch straps made last night and tonight. Last night's was using the Chinois thread and 9spi punch marks, tonight's was using the waxed thread and 7spi. No groove, lightly hammered flat after stitching. I like the strap I made tonight much better than the one with the Chinois threads and not only because the stitching is neater. The larger thread and stitch count just looks better proportioned to me for the size of the project. This is pretty much the crux of the issues I'm having with this Chinois thread. Even the 432 looks very small and fine to me, yet others are saying even finer thread should be used for a project like this. I just don't understand.

Let me know what you think....

have you watched Nigel's saddle stitching videos i posted links to earlier in this thread yet? your stitching is inconsistent in some places...it looks like you are not stitching the exact same way with every stitch. that is why some stitches look a little out of place.

what size awl blade are you using?

all high quality, professionally made watch bands i've seen are made with smaller thread, so smaller thread and higher SPI looks better to me, but that's just personal preference.

Edited May 16, 2014 by LTC

[Macca]

Have a look at these

Charlie does some beautiful work !

532 & 632 Lin Cable

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=50768

[mrtreat32]

David -

Yes, I agree with your comments about the different styles of stitch, but really there's no variation in the way I do it - I'm nowhere near that skilled yet! I did use a pricking iron in both cases, but no groove and I stitch with the work clamped in a pony and stitch toward myself. I push the awl through, then the backside needle, then the front side needle under and ahead of the other and pull tight. I watched the Hermes saddle stitch video a couple time and trying to emulate that technique. IOW, mark the stitch lines lightly with an iron, then push a sharp awl through each mark as I go, stitching toward myself. I keep the awl at about a 45deg angle to the edge of the work. In both cases, the front side stitching line comes out straight, or end to end and I get the angled pattern on the backside.

Here are two watch straps made last night and tonight. Last night's was using the Chinois thread and 9spi punch marks, tonight's was using the waxed thread and 7spi. No groove, lightly hammered flat after stitching. I like the strap I made tonight much better than the one with the Chinois threads and not only because the stitching is neater. The larger thread and stitch count just looks better proportioned to me for the size of the project. This is pretty much the crux of the issues I'm having with this Chinois thread. Even the 432 looks very small and fine to me, yet others are saying even finer thread should be used for a project like this. I just don't understand.

Let me know what you think....

Both straps.jpeg Chinois Strap.jpeg Linen Strap.jpeg

I personally like the look of the smaller stitches on these. I think you may be swayed a bit by the larger stitch coming out much cleaner as I almost was. But if both came out equal I think the smaller stitch would look a little more sleek.

I work as a chef and I think one way of looking at it is. Most people at home when cutting vegetables for soup and other dishes use larger more rustic cut based on skill level which is fine but I think people in the industry look at smaller precise cuts as a sign of craftsmanship and detail. Maybe that doesnt make sense haha. but after awhile you would look at the larger size and find it to be a more rustic and less refined look.

I too use the 432 and cant imagine moving to a smaller size yet either. A lot of people on here use .8mm tiger thread for small items and that is much larger so I guess its a matter of preference.

I have read conflicting information about the use of pricking irons. Some people say they are strictly used just to mark the holes for your awl. But since having the vergez pricking iron for a week or so I have messed around with different methods and I get better results punching it all the way through. This is how they do it on the fineleatherworking tutorial as well.

This guarantees that the back hole is straight with the front as long as you hammer it relatively straight. When I used it just to mark the holes I would sometimes have my awl coming out a bit crooked on the back. I dont see the negative to punching all the way through provided Im using a protective piece of leather underneath to protect the iron. If someone else can chime in on why this shouldnt be done Im open to all techniques and just want to improve.

[cjmt]

Correct thread weight is very much a matter of preference, as long as its strong enough. The European aestetic is more towards finer thread on the whole. You will achieve a neater looking more refined stitch with a lighter thread, assuming your techinque is good enough. My stitching is far from perfect, but for eg the watch strap below is a Blanchard no 10 pricking iron and 632 Ecru Lin Cable. The belt is 532 Natural Lin Cable with a no 8 Blanchard iron. You can also get a nice stitch with a no 8 and 432.

Charlie

[9tpi]

I work as a chef and I think one way of looking at it is. Most people at home when cutting vegetables for soup and other dishes use larger more rustic cut based on skill level which is fine but I think people in the industry look at smaller precise cuts as a sign of craftsmanship and detail. Maybe that doesnt make sense haha. but after awhile you would look at the larger size and find it to be a more rustic and less refined look.

Fantastic analogy .

it takes both technique and finesse to achieve a clean stitch as it does with a brunoise