Rounding A Corner With A Pricking Iron (Vergez Blanchard)

[mrtreat32]

I cant seem to figure out the correct angle to make my stitching seem seamless. Any tricks or tips for making a rounded turn with a pricking iron. I dont have a 2 prong iron so that may be part of the problem. A big rounded turn I think I can figure out but smaller turns Im having a tough time.

I have watched nigels videos and found them helpful with making a sharp turn (90degree angle. I use a scratch awl to make a rounded hole in the corner and than continue with the pricking iron on the new line). But I havent seen any videos of his where he makes a rounded turn like on a watch strap or a small rounded corner. Any links or tips would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

[LTC]

buy the 2 tooth iron.

[DavidL]

A video on his channel he makes a round box w/ curves using a regular iron.

[gary]

Angle the iron back a hell of a lot so only two teeth are touching the leather then go forwards one mark at a time. It works for me with No7, No8 and No 10 irons. Just be slow, careful and not overenthusiastic with the mallet.

[Hi Im Joe]

buy the 2 tooth iron.

Wow great advice!

I cant seem to figure out the correct angle to make my stitching seem seamless. Any tricks or tips for making a rounded turn with a pricking iron. I dont have a 2 prong iron so that may be part of the problem. A big rounded turn I think I can figure out but smaller turns Im having a tough time.

I have watched nigels videos and found them helpful with making a sharp turn (90degree angle. I use a scratch awl to make a rounded hole in the corner and than continue with the pricking iron on the new line). But I havent seen any videos of his where he makes a rounded turn like on a watch strap or a small rounded corner. Any links or tips would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

You can use wing dividers and match them to the prongs of your iron and then use them to mark your holes around the corner. Then just punch with an awl like you normally would. Saves you some money from having to buy the 2 prong iron.

[mrtreat32]

A video on his channel he makes a round box w/ curves using a regular iron.

ill try to find the video. He has a lot though!

thanks

Angle the iron back a hell of a lot so only two teeth are touching the leather then go forwards one mark at a time. It works for me with No7, No8 and No 10 irons. Just be slow, careful and not overenthusiastic with the mallet.

I have been trying this a bit but then I end up messing up the previously marked holes when I turn the iron in the ones already punched. Gonna look a bit closer and try to go slower as you suggested!

thanks

Wow great advice!

You can use wing dividers and match them to the prongs of your iron and then use them to mark your holes around the corner. Then just punch with an awl like you normally would. Saves you some money from having to buy the 2 prong iron.

Yeah thats what I did so far with best results. I stabbed them with my awl without the use of the pricking iron.

How do you all make a turn on a 90degree angle? Im fairly happy with the results Im getting by punching the corner hole with a scratch awl (round hole) and then resuming back to the pricking iron the next line. If anyone has suggestions which they think are better I would leave to hear that as well.

[DavidL]

Thats the best way to use a scratch awl on the edge. You could alternatively make the pattern so there aren't any 90 degree corners, or curve the edge of the wallet so the stitch is curved at the corner.

Anyone have any luck stitching through 3 layers of 2/3 veg tan and getting the pricking iron to press through to the backside?

[Macca]

Anyone have any luck stitching through 3 layers of 2/3 veg tan and getting the pricking iron to press through to the backside?

These tools really are not designed for that, you will eventually damage them by doing this.

Not to mention removing them from the leather afterwards will no doubt, distort it.

They are really not meant to be used as punches, only for marking followed by an awl.

Learn to use an awl properly & you will have no issues stitching almost anything !

As for the OP, heres a link showing how to mark curves with an iron

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?19961-Pricking-Irons-How-to-go-round-corners-not-cut-them!

[UnionCraft]

Do what Gary said. Tilt your iron, but DO NOT PUNCH OR TAP w/ a mallet.

Using your own strength, apply a small amount of pressure to make slanted marks.

After you mark around the leather, use your diamond awl to make the holes. I recommend placing the leather over thick scrap leather or a cork board to drive the awl through to make sure it's perfectly driven straight.

The marks from the pricking iron shows you how slanted each hole needs to be as well as how they need to be spaced apart.

The awl acts as a 1 Dent pricking iron that you drive through the leather.

This is the best way and your results will appear exactly as if you had used a 2 Dents pricking iron.

[UnionCraft]

Mrtreat32,

Again there are multiple ways to achieve round cornered stitching.

In mathematics, 2+2 will always = 4

However, there are many leather craftsman from many different backgrounds of training and there are also many different tools.

Thus, there are various ways to approach a rounded stitch. And there are no correct ways of doing so; it's only based off your preference.

The most common ways I've seen are:

- Tilting your pricking iron. (Commonly used in England)

Some just use the iron alone to mark the holes without hammering and use the marks to guide an awl through.

Others tap lightly to make a short hole and use an awl to penetrate through and exit the backside of the leather. I don't like this way, because you end up slanting the entrance hole and it’s easier to accidentally mar the leather with an extra tooth where you don't want it.

- A pricking wheel. (Used a lot more in the saddlery trade, so Hermès selliers have been seen using the Blanchard griffe à molette when making saddles.)

Just like an overstitch wheel, you push the wheel around rounded ends and then make the holes with an awl.

- A 2 Dents Pricking Iron

(Commonly seen in France due to Blanchards wide offering of pricking irons.)

(Dixon, Barnsley, etc. offer 1/2”, 1”, 1.5” irons, so you see lot old school English craftsmen using the “tilted pricking iron” method. However, to meet the demands of today’s market, Dixon has their own 2 tooth offering now.)

Depending on the size of your curves, you can use a 1-20+ dents pricking iron. The larger the roundness, the larger your pricking iron choice.

I like this method because it’s easier and less time consuming.

If you are looking to try alternatives to the 2 dents iron and would like to use your existing iron, please see my next post, I will show you how to do the “tilted pricking iron” method.

[UnionCraft]

The rounded corners on this, was made using a penny as a pattern.

Pic 1

Here I am placing the first tooth into the previous hole to space the stitching. The second tooth is being pressed into the leather carefully, so that the 3rd tooth doesn’t come down far enough to mar my work. The second tooth may be adjusted if mistakes are made, because the leather hasn't been punctured yet.

Pic 2

Here are the marks after I’m finished.

Pic 3

Being careful, I place my awl on the mark and make sure it lines up perfectly slanted with the slanted marks from the pricking iron. Then I push the awl straight down, perpendicular to the leather.

I’m using multiple scrap layers to do this, so that I protect my awl after it exits out the back.

Pic 4

Here are the finished results after making the holes with my awl.

Pics 5 & 6

After stitching this piece, I decided to finish the edges as well, for presentation.

Pic 7

What I am referring to, in my previous reply…

I’m not a fan of lightly hammering the iron with a mallet, because doing so, will create a slanted entrance holes because of the tilted iron. You can still achieve good results this way, but only if you’re able to correct the hole you make with an awl. However, I just prefer to not have it initially slanted.

[Hi Im Joe]

Awesome tutorial! Thanks for taking the time to do it!

[UnionCraft]

Also, since Nigel Armitage is referenced many times, I decided to poke around.

In this video, at around 1:15, he demonstrates the tilted method for rounded bends.

He also demonstrates the wheel method by using an "overstitch wheel."

An over-stitch wheel is common in western leatherwork and it produces small dots to mark the leather.

European leatherwork involves a "pricking wheel," which creates the slanted marks of a pricking iron.

Again, as shown by Nigel, there are multiple ways to go about rounded corners.

I hope all this info was helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gtonQ3YF5s

Awesome tutorial! Thanks for taking the time to do it!

You're welcome!

[mrtreat32]

super helpful tutorial! Really appreciate it!

After looking at your pics I was curious about a few other things.

Did you backstitch at the beginning of the piece when you started and than again at the end to make it look uniform? I might give that a shot if so.. I like the way both sides ended up with symmetrical stitching.

Do you punch the pricking iron all the way through the piece? I have read different opinions on this.. I dont see the harm as long as there is something under the piece to protect the tool when the teeth go through. Maybe finishing the whole with the awl gives a better result?

What size thread is that? Fil au chinois?

My stitches dont have space like that between each one. Im assuming because I have size432 and maybe youre using something finer?

Stitching looks awesome. Do you have a website?

[UnionCraft]

super helpful tutorial! Really appreciate it!

You're welcome!

After looking at your pics I was curious about a few other things.

Did you backstitch at the beginning of the piece when you started and than again at the end to make it look uniform? I might give that a shot if so.. I like the way both sides ended up with symmetrical stitching.

Yes I did. It's a neater look.

Do you punch the pricking iron all the way through the piece? I have read different opinions on this.. I dont see the harm as long as there is something under the piece to protect the tool when the teeth go through. Maybe finishing the whole with the awl gives a better result?

For the straight stitches, I punched through the leather. The rounded corners were pierced with my awl.

What size thread is that? Fil au chinois?

I did not want to waste my good thread for this tutorial, so I opted for my cheaper Barbour 32/3 thread. The 32/3 is equivalent to the N°732 Lin Cable thread. Typically I would use my N°632 Lin Cable for my N°10 pricking iron.

My stitches dont have space like that between each one. Im assuming because I have size432 and maybe youre using something finer?

Which pricking iron do you use? I would recommend N°432 with a N°6-8 pricking iron depending on your preference.

Stitching looks awesome. Do you have a website?

Thanks!

Sorry, but I'd rather not disclose that information.

I'm only here to help.

[mrtreat32]

I am using the 432 thread with a 9spi vergez iron. Think I will try the 532 for my next order.

I also have tiger thread .6mm but its even larger than the 432.

[UnionCraft]

Before pulling the trigger on your next order, I thought you'd like to see this.

The edge stitching is a N°9 pricking iron with N°632 Lin Cable.

The s-decorative stitching is a N°10 pricking iron with the same N°632 Lin Cable.

Since this topic is about rounding corners, I decided to include rounded corners to remain relevant lol!

The curved parts were all stitched using the tilted pricking iron technique.

I hope this reference was helpful to you. I'm sorry, but I do not have any N°532 Lin Cable to compare.

[mrtreat32]

Before pulling the trigger on your next order, I thought you'd like to see this.

The edge stitching is a N°9 pricking iron with N°632 Lin Cable.

The s-decorative stitching is a N°10 pricking iron with the same N°632 Lin Cable.

Since this topic is about rounding corners, I decided to include rounded corners to remain relevant lol!

The curved parts were all stitched using the tilted pricking iron technique.

I hope this reference was helpful to you. I'm sorry, but I do not have any N°532 Lin Cable to compare.

IMG_2248.jpg

stitching looks awesome again!

Think I will order the 632 now that I see it in use. Actually doesnt look all that small. Is there a website that sells the Barbour thread in the US? I should probably get some cheaper thread as well for practicing until I get better.

Kinda liking the N10 pricking stitches even more than the 9. I only have a 4 tooth 9spi iron at the moment and wanting to pull the trigger on something bigger (probably 10 teeth). I was actually leaning towards getting a 7spi iron for the variety but after seeing your stitching and trying out 7spi with a overstitch wheel Im not liking the big stitches so much. Think Im gonna get a 10!

[UnionCraft]

stitching looks awesome again!

Think I will order the 632 now that I see it in use. Actually doesnt look all that small. Is there a website that sells the Barbour thread in the US? I should probably get some cheaper thread as well for practicing until I get better.

Kinda liking the N10 pricking stitches even more than the 9. I only have a 4 tooth 9spi iron at the moment and wanting to pull the trigger on something bigger (probably 10 teeth). I was actually leaning towards getting a 7spi iron for the variety but after seeing your stitching and trying out 7spi with a overstitch wheel Im not liking the big stitches so much. Think Im gonna get a 10!

Thanks!

I've bought some of my Barbour on ebay. I've also bought from Hewit in the UK.

Keep stitching!

[Basically Bob]

Wow, what an awesome thread!

I, also, have been struggling with curves and until now, have been getting around the issue by using an overstitch wheel to mark the stitch location on curves then continuing on the straight runs with either my 1 1/2" or 1/2" pricking irons.

Just spent about 30 minutes at the bench using UnionCraft's technique and .... by golly, I think I got it!

My overstitch wheel will now be used for what it was intended.

Thanks to all for sharing!

Bob

[UnionCraft]

You're welcome Bob.

I'm glad it helped!

[mrtreat32]

Im trying to find a place to buy some Barbour thread and I did a search on this site but its a bit confusing. The different online retailers seem to have different packaging so Im not sure if they are all the same. Some spools look small and others are large all with different labels.

the 35/3 is equal to 832 chinois? What would be the equivalent of 632?

Btw fineleatherworking is out of the 632 which I was going to order in Ecru (beige). Any other US online stores carry this thread?

[mrtreat32]

Did you backstitch at the beginning of the piece when you started and than again at the end to make it look uniform? I might give that a shot if so.. I like the way both sides ended up with symmetrical stitching.

"Yes I did. It's a neater look."

This might be a dumb question but to do this do you just start at the 2nd hole and go to the first hole and than resume sewing as usual. Same process as you would when finishing a project? Also when finishing a project and backstitching do you do it the exact same way as regular stitching? Left needle through first, right needle behind that one and cast left thread over? I have never had a problem with thread coming loose but I feel it could look neater on my work.

Tried to do some reading up but Im finding different ways of doing it online and books that I have. This is one link I found.

http://www.bowstock.co.uk/backstit0.html

[LTC]

This might be a dumb question but to do this do you just start at the 2nd hole and go to the first hole and than resume sewing as usual. Same process as you would when finishing a project? Also when finishing a project and backstitching do you do it the exact same way as regular stitching? Left needle through first, right needle behind that one and cast left thread over?

all of this is covered, multiple times and in great detail, in Nigel Armitage's videos on youtube. have you watched any of them yet?

i don't really understand people's reluctance to watch his videos. they cover things like this in a straight-forward and easy to understand manner.

[mrtreat32]

all of this is covered, multiple times and in great detail, in Nigel Armitage's videos on youtube. have you watched any of them yet?

i don't really understand people's reluctance to watch his videos. they cover things like this in a straight-forward and easy to understand manner.

Yes I have seen I think most of them now a few months back when I started but I dont remember every detail since its a lot to take in at once.

Also he has over 15hrs of footage so finding something specific would take a long time? Unless there is a way to search specific details in the video Im not sure?

From what I remember he also does it very different from the link I posted and from what I have read elsewhere. I find his videos that I have seen to be very informative but they are not the FINAL word on all things leather sewing IMO. If he answered all questions to suit everyones style of work we could all just bookmark his videos and there would be no use for the forum.

For example he uses Tiger thread I believe and to me it looks far too chunky when sewing 9spi so Im looking to learn from other sources and get other peoples input as well.

If I had the same tools as him, same thread, and wanted the same look as his work maybe his videos would be the end all.

Edited May 22, 2014 by mrtreat32