Recommendation - Jack Jk-561A-1 Servo Motor

[mikesc]

Usual guide to wiring mono phase ( 3 wires with ..1 phase wire, 1 neutral wire , 1 earth wire ) wire colours..

Hot colours ( like red or brown ) are the live / phase wire..

Cold colours ( like blue or black ) is the neutral wire..

Whatever colour is "left over" after the above two..is the earth wire..

Usually the "left over wire" is Green or Green and Yellow..

Make sure that whatever "line" the device is connected to has a circuit breaker ( not a fuse ) fitted..

Tri-phase wiring is different..uses different colour combos..and tri-phase electricity is more dangerous than mono phase..

If you have more than 3 wires, then you are probably looking at tri-phase, and getting tri-phase wiring wrong can bite you..so unless you know what you are doing..don't touch the wires..( playing with tri-phase can kill you easily )..call for an electrician..

If you have an old style clutch machine that was wired for tri-phase and has been converted to run on mono ( either via a frequency generator ) or using a capacitor to make an "artificial phase", again , unless you know what you are doing, for any electrical repairs, call an electrician..

Never work on anything that is plugged into the supply ..even if it is switched off..some people put the switches on the neutral ( even professional electricians seem to do this a lot in France, on machines and light switches, everything!! )..which means that the device still has power after the switch..power which can / will bite / maybe kill you..

[Northmount]

Wire colours vary in different countries. In North America, white is neutral, green (or bare copper) is safety ground, and for single phase systems, black is hot, so is red in 110-0-110 (220 volt). 3 phase typical, red, black, and blue are hot.

I've seen cord sets here that are blue and brown for power leads, green with yellow stripe for safety ground. Not sure which one is hot. Have to check each time to determine which is which!

So it is best for all equipment that you check with someone knowledgeable in your area. Be safe, not sorry.

And yes, there are many mistakes made in wiring systems by people that don't know the standards. So check that a circuit is really dead before you touch bare wires. I've seen an electrician get his arm badly burned by a flash over with 3 phase 600 VAC. He didn't check that the load centre power was still off from the previous day. Tripped a 2000 A supply.

Tom

[kolb]

Thanks for the answer. The information given by college sewing is very succint and very disappointing. They don't sell any 13mm shaft pulleys and I have seen none for sewing machines so far anywhere else so I think it is not standard ?

They don't tell the size of the pulley neither but from what you say it must be 75mm. I would like to have a smaller one .Does anyone know where to find one?

Are you sure of the size (maybe it is not metric, it could be 1/2") ,does it have a key or a screw ?

[Constabulary]

I know - that also bothered me a bit that they have no other pulleys. I now have custom made 40mm pulleys on my two Jack motors but the guy who made them is out of country for a while so I have no access to more atm. I also wanted to order speed reducer pulleys but seems I have to shift it to the next year or find someone else who can make some.

Shaft is 13mm, pulley needs grove for the key and it is secured with a nut.

That how it goes in the sewing machine business - you do not always get what you want / need so you have to find other solutions.

This is nothing that should drive you crazy.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Constabulary

[catskin]

Can you not just take the pulley you have in to place where they sell bearings belts sprockets and all that kind of thing and get a pulley in the size you want with the hole the size you need? Here in Canada it would be easy. Looking at the picture it looks almost exactly like the pulley on a Bosch or delco alternator. Maybe you could find one at a machinery dealer.

[kolb]

It is more a question of price than anything else , half machined pulleys are available ,but they are not cheap + sending costs + machining the hole and key + transportation costs you can easily end up with a pulley that will costs a third of the complete motor.If you can't do it yourself or know somebody who can ,it is not worth it.

Edited November 25, 2014 by kolb

[Constabulary]

I paid 15€ for one 40mm pulley not cheap but worth every cent. The Jack motors + speed reducer (also custom made) worked great with the original 75mm pulley, I just wanted to have this little bit of extra torque.

[alexitbe]

Hi Constabulary,

How are you finding the motor? Are you using the standard 75mm or is the 40 mm? How many seconds does it take to go through one stitching cycle on the lowest speed? I wish to go as slow as poss.

I spoke to college sewing and he suggested I buy from somewhere in Germany. Even gave me the name of the people who supply Durkopp. However, he said they would be expensive. I think I will ignore hima nd order from him.

Cheers

Alex

[alexitbe]

Well, I orderd it this morning, along with some bits for the Singer and it should arrive for the weekend...

Happy Days are almost here....tra la la..

Alex

[VanRhodes]

I figured I might as well try here in case anyone could actually read this. I'm coming up short within my normal circle of friends and I cant seem to find an english copy of the manual for the motor either and I'm getting an error code when I am trying to configure the NPS, E5 to be specific, but I have no idea what it says. Any help would be greatly apprechiated.

[Constabulary]

yes yes - me native Chinese - no problem - do translate quick and make code list table...

**Just kidding**

sorry seems I got you wrong in your PN.

My motor came with a poor English manual but I have a code list. E5 is an synchronizer error - thats why I said my motor does not work with NPS because of the speed reducer. I also had the E5 with the speed reducer installed. Figured I don´t need the NPS at all so I no longer care about it but here is the error code table from my manual

Anyway - still the best servo motor I was able to find on this side of the pond.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Constabulary

[VanRhodes]

haha! I did not get that part of the manual included with my motor, thanks alot!

[lesotter]

Hi

Alexitbe - Where did you order your pulley from please? Looks like I will be needing one too!

Many thanks

Lesotter

[amuckart]

Thanks for sharing this. I was eyeing those up the other day and it's nice to read some experiences with them.

I'd love to know more about your speed reducer. The one that came with my 441 clone is a POS and I need a better one.

I have a Ho-Hsing motor on my 441 clone with a needle positioning system and it works with the speed reducer. There is a sensor that attaches to the shaft of the machine on the back of the hand wheel that has adjustments in it. Ho-Hsing were good enough to email me a copy of the manual for the motor, which is pretty ancient, but works fine.

[Constabulary]

Ho-Hsing are for sure higher end quality motors and are more expensive afaik. But I´m very please with my Jack servo. I don´t really need the NPS but would have been a nice feature though. Still a huge improvement compared with the freaking high speed & energy consuming clutch motors.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Constabulary

[VanRhodes]

amuckart -> what does your sensor look like internally? I am trying to get my NPS to work but I'm not having much progress yet even though I do hope to find out. Thanks to the very nice gear ratio of my current setup I get a 1:10 ratio so its still _very_ manageable, but I would very much like to have the NPS working properly as it will make the W-W patterns so much easier.

[VanRhodes]

Here's the system I am currently working on, showing the NPS mounted to the shaft of the head and the gears used to achieve the desired gear ratio.

[amuckart]

Ho-Hsing are for sure higher end quality motors and are more expensive afaik. But I´m very please with my Jack servo. I don´t really need the NPS but would have been a nice feature though. Still a huge improvement compared with the freaking high speed & energy consuming clutch motors.

The new ones are expensive. This one came on a Pfaff 441 that I bought second hand for NZ$200. I didn't have space for the machine itself, so I sold that but kept the motor.

[amuckart]

amuckart -> what does your sensor look like internally? I am trying to get my NPS to work but I'm not having much progress yet even though I do hope to find out. Thanks to the very nice gear ratio of my current setup I get a 1:10 ratio so its still _very_ manageable, but I would very much like to have the NPS working properly as it will make the W-W patterns so much easier.

Sure, here they are. The unit has three optical sensors, and a set of disks. Once has regularly spaced tiny holes that tells the motor how many RPM the actual machine is doing (as opposed to how many RPM the motor is doing), and the other two have a chunk out of the rim and can be rotated to set the needle up/down position.

Bear in mind that this is quite an old unit. Ho-Hsing haven't made this motor for several years. I don't know if more modern motors use hall effect sensors or still use optical ones.

I made the aluminium bracket that prevents the sensor from rotating.

[Trox]

Thanks for a good topic, very good reviews of the motor.

I just want to clear up what I said about Needle position and speed reducers. It only applies to the new Efka motors DC 1200, DC 1250, DC 1500 and DC 1550 with control boxes. These motor systems do not adjust the needle position on the synchronizer head any more (like on older Efka motors). Adjustments are all done in the control box and the head are just there to calculate belt slippage. Without a belt drive as on VanRhodes cl. 20 (has to be) gear drive, you would not need this head at all using an new Efka.

Anyway, Efka assure their motors would be strong enough for any known lock-stitch machine without use of a speed reducer (I never had any problems with mine, using just half of the rated torque settings on a 441). That said, there are always special solutions than need a speed reducer. Then you can mount the head on the speed reducer itself to avoid these errors.

HohSing, uses the"old" type adjustments in the sync. head on most of their motors, if not all. Several/most of their motors are AC position motors, not DC as Efka uses. So if the motor has the same style head as on Amuckart`s HohSing, it should be working well with a speed reducer.

It could be many other reasons for getting "NP" errors on the Jacksew motor. The actual adjustment timing could be wrong, needle down and needle up are set to close together or to far (from 0 to 360 degree). The head could be mounted wrongly on the shaft, jumps on the shaft or turns a little with the shaft. Or it could be a control box error. There are many Chinese "NP" motors on the marked having these errors, its very common. Then of course the lack of a good manual and support will make problems too (you get what you pay for).

Overall, this Jacksew motor looks to be a good alternative. The next step up would be an HohSing G series "NP" motor; the G60 is not that expensive (even here in Norway) and it has 600 watt, no errors and good low speed control. Made in Japan for around 300 $ (Check with Gregg @ Keystone) http://www.hohsing.com/index.php/en/ac-servo-motor-en/142-g-series-en This motor will not allow any extra attachments such ar foot lift, thread trimmers etc.. If you are looking for such options you must by a more expensive motor system.

Thanks

Tor

[Constabulary]

There are for sure better motors than the Jack but as TROX said - you get what you pay for. As an hobbyist I´m please with mine and don´t need all these features but if someone does he should buy a HoHsing or an EFKA. I basically needed s/t that spins my machine

[VanRhodes]

amuckart: Thanks alot! My NPS is pretty much the same inside minus the third disc for counting the RPMs. This atleast confirms my suspicion that the NPS is simply checking the need up and down pos and nothing else, meaning the amount of gears or pulleys in between the motor and machine shaft doesnt matter one bit.

Trox: Thanks for the clarification! I've been eyeballing on of the newer Efka units but I'm afraid its a little bit pricey right now, besides the Jack-motor with the timing belts and gears does offer plenty of control and power as it is, but I'll have to see if I can figure out why the NPS won't work as intended. When the NPS is activated and I turn on the control box, the servo moves a small bit, 1/4 or similar tops, and then stops and display the E5 error. I'm not sure why it does this but I will have to test and see what I can come up with.

[Trox]

amuckart: Thanks alot! My NPS is pretty much the same inside minus the third disc for counting the RPMs. This atleast confirms my suspicion that the NPS is simply checking the need up and down pos and nothing else, meaning the amount of gears or pulleys in between the motor and machine shaft doesnt matter one bit.

Trox: Thanks for the clarification! I've been eyeballing on of the newer Efka units but I'm afraid its a little bit pricey right now, besides the Jack-motor with the timing belts and gears does offer plenty of control and power as it is, but I'll have to see if I can figure out why the NPS won't work as intended. When the NPS is activated and I turn on the control box, the servo moves a small bit, 1/4 or similar tops, and then stops and display the E5 error. I'm not sure why it does this but I will have to test and see what I can come up with.

Hi,

I do not know these Jack servomotors. The Error guide is as expected for these Chinese motors; translated with Google I guess.

With an Efka, you can call them on Skype video call and show them the problem. They will sit down with you until your machine sews, as it should. That’s free, included in the package. If it takes one day or four, that do not matter. That is necessary when time is money.

Like I said before, if you share a machine revolution (360 deg.) in two parts, each 180 deg. Needle-up position inside one part and needle-down pos inside the other. If one is adjusted to close to the other window, it sometimes will return to the wrong position. Rotate backward or not at all. These two positions must be correct timed otherwise this might happen; the motor gets no clear start/stop signal. Same thing will happen if you take off the head and try to start the motor.

Perhaps something happens in your gear reduction; perhaps it is too many gears. Perhaps it will work better if you position the pos-head on another gear wheel. I do not know, it’s hard to tell without seeing it my self. However, if this motor works with normal speed reducers. I think this has a logical solution, map it down on a piece of paper and count rotations in the drive. Perhaps you will see what’s wrong with the setup (or has it worked with this setup before?)

Otherwise, check that the head are well connected to the hand-wheel; stays still when the Hand-wheel rotates (does not follow the shaft around). If there is an IR beam inside, check for dirt on the lens and false light etc. Then take an all reset if necessary and time the two positions all over again.

Remember that needle-down position will be a bit after BTC, when the needle it’s on its way upward again (when the hook has grabbed the thread loop). The thread take-up lever should have traveled half its way up.

In Needle-up position, the thread take-up should be all the way up. I do not know if this applies to the Jack servo, however the motor has to get its start/stop signal from the head (if constructed like mention in the other post’s) If this do not help you contact the dealer and ask for help or make a complain.

Good luck

Tor

[VanRhodes]

Trox: Thanks for the intel, I will have another look at everything and properly inspect it as soon as time allows for it, at the moment I have some pressing matters that I need to finish up so there's really not alot of time for troubleshooting but I do greatly apprechiate your efforts in helping me out! Thanks alot!

[Constabulary]

Thanks for sharing this. I was eyeing those up the other day and it's nice to read some experiences with them.

I'd love to know more about your speed reducer. The one that came with my 441 clone is a POS and I need a better one.

Sorry - seems I missed this.

My speed reducers are custom made and have 2 ball bearings.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=53689&p=351899