Zig-Zag Only On One Side

[alackofcolor]

So I recently got a diamond pricking iron in order to get that nice zig-zag pattern in my hand stitching and I've watched this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0EL7K2NhYs

as well as the often-cited Nigel video on how to do saddle stitching but I have two problems to which I can't figure out the cause.

The first problem is that I'm only getting that nice zig-zag diamond pattern on one side of the leather (in my case the front side), while the other side is more or less a straight line (see attached photos). The other issue is that, on the back side, the first stitch is always dropped relative to the rest of the line. Something tells me that if I fix the first issue, the second one will take care of itself, but I can't seem to get it to work. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edited June 27, 2014 by alackofcolor

[scottyslife]

I don't know if this will help or if I can even explain it adequately, as I just started saddle stitching myself. But here goes take it for what it's worth, the thing unlocked most from nigel's video was how the thread goes into the hole the right up and to the front the left thread down and to the back following the slant of the diamond all hole. That's how I remember it. I was doing a fairly thick project the other day and was having simular issues. As I watched nigel for the hundredth time to figure out what I was doing wrong I noticed that when he puts the left needle in he pull that needle through a long with the thread already in the hole I did that just like he did and what I discovered was sometimes I crossed the thread inside the hole and if I pulled back the thread with the needle I was better able to tell if the thread was laying correctly as it should. Anyway that's my two cents and a different way to visualize, perhaps some one else who knows more will have better help. And nigel if you read this post and I have it all wrong my sincerest apologies.

Scott

[mrtreat32]

So I recently got a diamond pricking iron in order to get that nice zig-zag pattern in my hand stitching and I've watched this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0EL7K2NhYs

as well as the often-cited Nigel video on how to do saddle stitching but I have two problems to which I can't figure out the cause.

The first problem is that I'm only getting that nice zig-zag diamond pattern on one side of the leather (in my case the front side), while the other side is more or less a straight line (see attached photos). The other issue is that, on the back side, the first stitch is always dropped relative to the rest of the line. Something tells me that if I fix the first issue, the second one will take care of itself, but I can't seem to get it to work. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

IMG_6304.JPGIMG_6305.JPG

If you want the back to be slanted as well you need to cast the stitch on the back. Some people call it throw the loop and Im sure there are other terms.

I was going to try to type it out but it didnt make sense. Here is a link I found that is pretty easy to follow this is exactly how I stitch if I want the back to also be slanted and it works great.

http://www.bowstock.co.uk/saddstit0.html

Its also the same way its done in "the leather working handbook" if you have that. Has nice easy to follow pictures as well.

The nigel video are great but aren't his slants of his pricking iron going the opposite direction in most videos instead of like this ///// they slant towards him. I could be mistaken.

Anyway please try that and let me know if that works

Edited June 27, 2014 by mrtreat32

[alackofcolor]

If you want the back to be slanted as well you need to cast the stitch on the back. Some people call it throw the loop and Im sure there are other terms.

I was going to try to type it out but it didnt make sense. Here is a link I found that is pretty easy to follow this is exactly how I stitch if I want the back to also be slanted and it works great.

http://www.bowstock.co.uk/saddstit0.html

Its also the same way its done in "the leather working handbook" if you have that. Has nice easy to follow pictures as well.

The nigel video are great but aren't his slants of his pricking iron going the opposite direction in most videos instead of like this ///// they slant towards him. I could be mistaken.

Anyway please try that and let me know if that works

Thanks for the link. I tried it, and now the back is slanted and the front is a straight line :-)

[mrtreat32]

Thanks for the link. I tried it, and now the back is slanted and the front is a straight line :-)

Are you sure you are following the pictures exact? That is exactly how I do it and I have slanted stitches on both sides.

That is also how Peter Nitz stitches and Hermes. I have actually asked him and he told me how he does it..he said he casts the stitch most of the time but not always depending on the thickness of the leather and if the back will be showing.

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150131553076948

watch at 2:45

Edited June 27, 2014 by mrtreat32

[mrtreat32]

http://imgur.com/cGRhblP

back

http://imgur.com/dqSDQbI

front

[alackofcolor]

Yeah, I'm pretty certain that I'm following the instructions correctly. I'm wondering if the problem is one of hole size or thread size. Following the images, you pass the right needle over the left thread, and then cast the left thread over the right needle. So on the left side of the material, the left thread is over the right thread and on the right side of the material, the right thread is over the left thread. I believe this is what ensures that you get the zig-zag on both sides. But when I pull it tight, this configuration doesn't stay and the left thread ends up over top of the right thread on both sides, giving me a zig-zag only on the left side. It's like there's not enough thread thickness or too large of a hole to hold that swapped position above in place.

[mrtreat32]

Yeah, I'm pretty certain that I'm following the instructions correctly. I'm wondering if the problem is one of hole size or thread size. Following the images, you pass the right needle over the left thread, and then cast the left thread over the right needle. So on the left side of the material, the left thread is over the right thread and on the right side of the material, the right thread is over the left thread. I believe this is what ensures that you get the zig-zag on both sides. But when I pull it tight, this configuration doesn't stay and the left thread ends up over top of the right thread on both sides, giving me a zig-zag only on the left side. It's like there's not enough thread thickness or too large of a hole to hold that swapped position above in place.

The thread you're using is definitely not too thin. The thinner the thread I use the more noticeable the slant from my experience.

I have used .8mm tiger thread at 9spi and after a lot of experimenting I found out my stitching didnt look slanted because the thread was filling the hole tightly and didnt have enough room to show it running from bottom to top corner. When I used that same thread at a bigger SPI (7spi or so) than it would slant again. I have been doing mostly 9spi which is pretty small so I started using thinner thread. Barbour and Fil Au Chinois 632. If I use .8mm or larger in that small of spacing its too chunky to see it running at a angle.

http://www.fineleatherworking.com/linen-thread/waxed-linen-thread-ecru

Here is a picture where you can see the thread on the right for example is starting to look less angled compared to the smaller ones on the left. The one on the far right almost looks straight in spots and would look even straighter if using thread around 1mm

Also how thick is the piece of leather you are using. If you have the time I would try it again with 2 scrap pieces stitched together.

I also notice the exact same sewing techniques create a different look depending on the firmness of the leather and a bunch of other factors.

Also you are not using a groover I assume? Sewing the exact same way as mentioned above in a groove will not give you a slanted look because the groove is holding it in a straight direction.

Edited June 27, 2014 by mrtreat32

[alackofcolor]

Nope, no groove.

I actually tried 0.8 mm Tiger Thread with a 8.5 spi diamond pricking iron to pretty much the same results. What I have pictured above is the same pricking iron, but a rounder thread at about the same diameter.

What was shown above was a single piece of 4/5 oz leather. I just tried again with a much thicker piece of leather (a single piece, not to thin pieces glued) and got more or less the same results. I say more or less because there were a couple of stitches in there where it was slanted on both sides. The issue is that in order to get slants on both sides, the thread on both sides at must both start at the bottom of the hole for a given stitch, but for me, one inevitably will push the other to the top. I don't know if it's because I'm not keeping enough tension on the line when tightening or what.

Edited June 27, 2014 by alackofcolor

[mrtreat32]

I know a lot of people will disagree but for a slanted stitch if you want a more designer look I think .8mm tiger thread is too thick.

I will sew a sample piece in a little bit the same exact way. One line with tiger thread and one with thinner thread at 9spi.

Tiger thread is nice but it lays more flat and even the .6mm that I have looks too thick for 9spi. At 6 or 7spi it looks nice but I currently dont have a pricking iron in that size.

Do you have any thinner thread to try out?