Malicious Customer,advice Needed.

[electrathon]

Etsy is owned by eBay? Seriously? I didn't know that.

PayPal is owned by eBay

[Redochre]

Thank you everyone for your replies. You all have valid points for both sides of the argument.

Things have escalated slightly, she has opened a case & is calling me nuts,crazy,insane & mad as a hatter. She is really trying to make things personal now... I'm guessing its an attempt to anger me & make me say something stupid.

I've reported her to Etsy & they said they are going to investigate her practices.

There is no way I'm going to bend over now & refund her. I know my product is sound, she is being nasty for the sake of it. As far as I'm concerned the wallet is now used because its had her husband's business & credit cards in it. I also feel this isn't the first time she's tried something like this, she's got away with it before so she's trying it again.

Lessons learned from this?

1. Low prices benefit no one. Its time to get the best leather I can't afford & charge more for my products.

2. Update my shop policies ASAP.

3. Leather worker is great resource.

[Studio-N]

Etsy is owned by eBay? Seriously? I didn't know that.

Sorry it wasn't worded right. Paypal is an ebay company. If you use paypal for the etsy payment you're screwed if the customer opens a case against you.

ebay/paypal do NOT protect the seller.

[Redochre]

I hear what your saying studio. Paypal & fleabay are great if your customer but awful if you're a vendor.

They pretty much can do what they want, they have no real competition. Basically they run a monopoly .

[NVLeatherWorx]

@Redochre: It sounds like she is really trying to make life difficult for you on this item. It also sounds like she is very practiced at this type of conduct so I am sure that Etsy will find that she is not new to this game and will shut her down. What everyone is saying about PayPal is accurate, they won't support the seller but they will darn sure go out of their way to make the pathetic cry baby in the corner feel all warm and fuzzy about their lack of understanding regarding what they actually purchase. Kind of sounds like our government here in the U.S. doesn't it?

Keep you head high, you will get through this. And I agree with you on calling the item used now, sounds only fair at this point. Just make sure you get those policies together so you have that as an extra support mechanism, Etsy is big on the policies thing but they will go above and beyond to protect a seller because they have actually figured it out that it is we who sell that bring the success, not the buyer who is more often than not just out to find their next sucker.

And yes, you should be charging more for your work. When I saw how low your prices were I couldn't believe it but we all have find our place and it isn't always so easy to figure it out. We need to be able to provide an affordable product but we also need to ensure that we can maintain our business operation and to me, the first focus is on the business being able to support itself. Unfortunately, we are going up against some of our fellow Etsians who are just trying to dump cheap product at or below the actual cost (and I say that because the vast majority of the handmade leather goods you will find in those shops are kits which we all know cost more than if you cut it yourself from raw materials) and these sellers are what I put into the Hobby category. For me the Hobby category is anyone, regardless of craft, that just does nothing but make and make and make and make and then decides to put their stuff up on some webpage or group shop environment like Etsy so that they can get enough money to purchase another 25 pack of the kits and start all over and repeat the same old designs over and over again. Custom made is totally different market and can be done even using a pre-cut kit. What makes it different is you open the door for the potential client to personalize that specific item to the product that THEY want, not just limited to WHAT you have made. I tell visitor to my little mobile shop every time I am at a craft fair or other type of event that if you want something that someone has made to THEIR liking then go to a big box store and get it but if you want something MADE for YOU to YOUR liking, sit down and let's talk.

Good luck, and keep us posted how this goes.

[rawcustom]

I just have to second the price point opinion. You are doing yourself no favors by low balling your work. You need to charge a fee that covers your expense and time if you plan to keep selling. The other fact is this, the people willing to seek you out for being the cheapest are always the hardest to satisfy. In my fulltime job the absolute most complaints I get is from a product/service offered to the public for free. FREE as in no cost, zero dollars, and zero cents. The people who seek out the freebies seem to have the natural personality to complain about anything and everything. Charge a realistic price and you won't work yourself out of business and you will be limiting your customer base to educated, typically respectful buyers.

[Pablo27]

I was in business for myself for 17 years dealing with the public and rawcustom is right on. The people that pay the least want the most. It is a lot harder to learn to say no and back away than almost anything else. What is you time worth in messing with her? You would be better off to spend that time on customers that are paying a decent price. It boils down to being right or being happy. Toxic customers just continue to suck the life out of your business and time. Good luck.

[NVLeatherWorx]

@rawcustom and @Pablo27: Amen guys. That is the short and sweet of it. Anyone reading this topic, if you want a great example of what these guys just said take a look at how the larger majority of Americans are complaining about everything. Want to know a little secret? The ones that are complaining are the ones who aren't doing anything to contribute to the system in the first place. Nothing like biting the hand that feeds you is there?

[ConradPark]

Not sure that I'll add something not already mentioned by others, just wanna say that while you obviously have done nothing wrong and I completely understand your feelings I can only advice that learn and go on.

With that I mean that having a shop on sites like Etsy and Ebay means that things like this happens.

And your prices are way, way too low! Also within EU and even when you sell through Etsy, by law the customer has right to cancel and return within 14 days, regardless your opinion on it. In the long run it's better to be polite, refund, and forget about it. Specially considering your low price anyway - not worth it!

And if you are going to continue to on Etsy you better be prepared for more of things like this, it's just part of how it works. If you really don't like it I suggest that you put in your efforts in your own website instead! However you still have to know how to deal with trouble customers!

Finally, if you would get a bad review, just close your shop and open a new one as your shop is new and you only have a few sales so far. With your quality of work you would get the same number of sales within a few weeks! Another hint is with each sale send a note (with your item) that states your return policy (make sure it follows the law and Etsy's policy) and encourage that they let you know if they are less than satisfied. While this might sound counter productive it actually make you seem more professional and able to deal with problems and that make some people not to bother if it's just a minor issue. On top of that DO tell them to write a review on your product - not the postal service (this is important, otherwise you'll just have to suffer if the postal service screw up and Royal Mail often does!), that way you quickly get more reviews on your shop. Most people won't bother otherwise!

Anyway, don't be disheartened by this incident - just concentrate on doing more of your fine work!

[TXAG]

What I do to combat things like this is preemptively block them whenever possible. For instance, if I get a PITA buyer that asks a lot of stupid, dumb questions that are already covered in my listings, they go straight on my block list. Oh, I'll go ahead and take time to answer their questions (AGAIN) alright, but they're not going to be able to buy from me...at least on ebay. I'm not sure if etsy will allow you to block buyers.

Then they get a rude awakening if/when they ever decide to stop with the tire kicking and go ahead and actually BUY something...they can't. At that point, they will send me a plaintive message and that's when I direct them to my website.

Works great for me.

Oh, and I also don't give away my work for almost nothing. I price it accordingly and that keeps out the riff-raff for the most part. There is the occasional PITA customer still, but not as many as when I sold cheaper items. I don't do that anymore and now I don't have as many bad customers.