Saddle treemakers-sub topic

[barra]

Dave. Where does a tree coated with Line X get it's strength from if the rawhide is done away with???

Barra

[mulefool]

I originally used Superior and Hercules way back when. For probably the last ten years I've used Sonny Felkins. I've been real happy with his trees. I tried a couple from Timberline but really wasn't that happy. The rawhiding wasn't that nice and the horn wasn't as refined and nice as Sonnys. Sometime I'd like to try one of Rod and Denise's trees after reading their posts here.

[Hidemechanic]

I can give you timberline info. Watch out for the Google search, there is a Timberline saddle co. that is a commercial saddle co. and not Saddle trees.

Randy and Aaron are the bros. that run the shop, quite quite willing to discuss your needs.

I have a couple old Superiors and a couple unmarked trees. They stayed in a hot shed too long and warped one beyond help, even the cantle board twisted (wall hanger now) I've been tempted to try a reset on the other just to see it it will square up and hold.

Anyone had experience with that I'd like to hear about it.

I'd also like Sonny's info, haven't kept up since he left Colorado.GH

[mulefool]

Sonny's info

Quality Mfg.

P.O. box 1244, Monticello, UT 84535

435-587-5070

[bcurrier]

Dave. Where does a tree coated with Line X get it's strength from if the rawhide is done away with???

LineX is far stronger than rawhide. As LineX points out in their sales literature, the product is used to provide explosion proofing protection to the military facilities' walls. It's also waterproof and doesn't rot. It sounds like a terrific application to me.

Bill

[steve mason]

LineX is far stronger than rawhide. As LineX points out in their sales literature, the product is used to provide explosion proofing protection to the military facilities' walls. It's also waterproof and doesn't rot. It sounds like a terrific application to me.

Bill

I am not sure if this would be true, the properties of rawhide covering a tree are incredible, most of the strength in a saddle tree is the rawhide not the wood, although the strength of the wood is important the rawhide is integral to the strength of a tree. I know a few years back a sales rep had a truck liner covered tree he was showing a local saddle maker, he boasted that you could run a truck over the tree, so they had him to so, his tree was was a bunch of toothpicks wrapped by broken and cut truck liner, then they ran over an old used rawhide covered tree, the tree did break, but no where near what the liner covered tree did, and the rawhide was still intact. I believe that the linex is a very durable material that will wear very well against friction and impact punctures which is not an issue since a saddle tree is covered by leather. yet does linex have any strength in regards to reinforce the wood tree, I find it hard to believe that is could be the same as rawhide.

just my 2 cents

[bcurrier]

Even as I wrote the reply, I gave some thought to flexibility differences between the materials. Rawhide is a stiffer material, even if its tear strength is lower. So, within its limits, I can see how the rawhide covered tree might hold up in the truck example. You have to ask a few questions, though: Does testing to that extreme even matter?. Saddles have to take handling and storage abuse, but they aren't designed to be run over by trucks, either. Was it an apples to apples comparison - i.e., who's to say what the design & construction goals of the two trees in question were? I guarantee you could make trees that would turn those results around. What were the thicknesses and layup of the rawhide vs. the LineX tree? Were there differences in the basic tree? Does the basic tree NEED to be different to take advantage of one material vs. the other? Etc. etc.

So here's a different question - why would a "properly" constructed (equivalently strong), LineX-covered tree not be better, especially if it were cheaper and more consistent? Is it harder to build on? Present maintenance issues? Heavier? Or is this an aesthetics issue?

Bill

[D.A. Kabatoff]

If a wood tree is completely encased in some sort of waterproof liner, that must mean that moisture can't get out of the wood either... I highly doubt the wood being used in these trees is completely free of moisture; could that lead to rot from the inside out?

Darc

[gtwister09]

From Line-X's website ... " Line-X provides the highest tear strength, tensile strength and abrasion resistance."

There are NO specific values for that "highest" designation (likewise is it just for the tear strength or for all three traits listed).

It lists tear and tensile strength but not torsional. It would be interesting to see what the stress-strain curve looks like and some valuable numbers like modulus of elasticity. One of the things that you have to account for engineering wise is flex life from repeated flex and strain and the long term strength associated with that. Will it fail from repeated flexing and strain? Hmmmmm.

All the applications that they presently list are topical. Are there any others that are used like rawhide? Just some questions that I have thinking out loud.

Regards,

Ben

[YRsaddles]

Even as I wrote the reply, I gave some thought to flexibility differences between the materials. Rawhide is a stiffer material, even if its tear strength is lower. So, within its limits, I can see how the rawhide covered tree might hold up in the truck example. You have to ask a few questions, though: Does testing to that extreme even matter?. Saddles have to take handling and storage abuse, but they aren't designed to be run over by trucks, either. Was it an apples to apples comparison - i.e., who's to say what the design & construction goals of the two trees in question were? I guarantee you could make trees that would turn those results around. What were the thicknesses and layup of the rawhide vs. the LineX tree? Were there differences in the basic tree? Does the basic tree NEED to be different to take advantage of one material vs. the other? Etc. etc.

So here's a different question - why would a "properly" constructed (equivalently strong), LineX-covered tree not be better, especially if it were cheaper and more consistent? Is it harder to build on? Present maintenance issues? Heavier? Or is this an aesthetics issue?

Bill

Bill..you bring up some good points...I can't say about these HIGH END trees..like a said I've never used them...are they alot more expensive?...I personally like the line-x trees better...you build on them the same as a rawhide covered tree. nails..tacks and screws. they are A LOT lighter..and due to friction the nails,tacks screws are sealed when they go in...I HAVE tested this...done a few other tests myself...never tried the truck thing...lol..but really it comes down to preference...I just put out there to let ya'll know there are OTHER options...BUT let me make one thing clear I ONLY use the LINE-X covering...not any spray on bedliner..I've heard that they don't hold up as well...but I don't know for sure could just be rumor.

That IS what this is about right...sharing info..learning...thats why I'm glad i joined this site...Is like one big collabroration between fellow leather crafters and saddle makers. ideas....ideas...ideas..

Dave

Edited January 25, 2008 by YRsaddles