What Machine Is This?

[DavidL]

1:44 Whats this brand and the price.

Is there a noticeable difference with machines w/ the fine needle and roller foot (?). How well does an edge guide work and can it be added to a vintage machine like the one in the video.

Edited July 20, 2014 by DavidL

[pcox]

looks like a Singer 136-100 to me.

[Constabulary]

Or a Singer 52W - but could be any post bed sewing machine. Roller foot seems to be a swing away type but I´m not sure. But she has a huge hand wheel installed. Pretty cool shes turning it by hand - one has to tell her about servo motors But I don't see an edge guide.

[Constabulary]

in the beginning you can see her machines - one is a 45K (as it seems) but the other one...

[DavidL]

These roller feet can they be installed on any singer machine or have to be a machine made specifically with that installed. Edge guides can they also be added to any machine?

whats the best machine - singer 136-100, singer 52w, 45k thats for 3-4 layers of 3 ounce or thinner. Has to be hand cranked.

[Wizcrafts]

These roller feet can they be installed on any singer machine or have to be a machine made specifically with that installed. Edge guides can they also be added to any machine?

whats the best machine - singer 136-100, singer 52w, 45k thats for 3-4 layers of 3 ounce or thinner. Has to be hand cranked.

4 layers at 3 ounces = 12 ounces = 3/16 inch. If that is the thickest you are going to sew, and if 8 or 9 oz is the thinnest, almost any roller foot post machine will do, as long as the leather has a soft hand. Dense leather begs for a heavier duty machine than these post machines. A 45k25 is a good medium to heavy duty machine you can hand wheel to sew shoes, but it is rare.

Are you restricting your search to old iron? There are some really good roller foot machines available for sale at reasonable prices, from our member-dealers (see ads on top of all pages here). I know of at least one that has both upper and lower rolling wheels driven and a large, M style bobbin. This would make a great shoe upper sewing machine. The old iron was usually only bottom feed and smallish bobbins. They are also used to sew hats and mocs.

[DavidL]

4 layers at 3 ounces = 12 ounces = 3/16 inch. If that is the thickest you are going to sew, and if 8 or 9 oz is the thinnest, almost any roller foot post machine will do, as long as the leather has a soft hand. Dense leather begs for a heavier duty machine than these post machines. A 45k25 is a good medium to heavy duty machine you can hand wheel to sew shoes, but it is rare.

Are you restricting your search to old iron? There are some really good roller foot machines available for sale at reasonable prices, from our member-dealers (see ads on top of all pages here). I know of at least one that has both upper and lower rolling wheels driven and a large, M style bobbin. This would make a great shoe upper sewing machine. The old iron was usually only bottom feed and smallish bobbins. They are also used to sew hats and mocs.

Im looking specifically for old vintage hand crank. Im new to leather sewing machines, what is the difference between upper and lower wheels, rather than just upper and what is M style bobbin? Looking in the 200-400 range. Does the old machine takes edge guides and bias tape attachments from new stock.

My criteria is from most important to least. First three is mandatory.

• Stitches Max close to half an inch and at least 12 ounces effortlessly of every material veg tan, Chrome, vinyl, heavy canvas.
• Vintage machine. No electricity. Comes with fine needle attachment and roller foot. Easy to use meaning that the machine is known for its quality.
• Not overly expensive. Will upgrade to something better but want something to first learn on and keep as a secondary machine.
• Has a round arm like the tippman boss but is longer. Can also equip a flatbed is extra.
• Things like edge guides, and bias tape attachments are wanted but not necessary.

Edited July 21, 2014 by DavidL

[Wizcrafts]

DavidL; what exactly are you going to sew on your ideal machine?

Old machines are very limited compared to modern ones.

[Wizcrafts]

Are you saying in requirement #1 that you need to stitch 1/2 inch stitch lengths? If so, you are going to need a whole nuther kind of machine. The average post or light duty cylinder arm machine only sews as long as 5 to the inch. My big Cowboy CB4500 sews two to the inch, as does its little brother, the CB3200. Contact Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, or one of the other advertising dealers on our forum to see what they have that meets your requirements.

[DavidL]

Are you saying in requirement #1 that you need to stitch 1/2 inch stitch lengths? If so, you are going to need a whole nuther kind of machine. The average post or light duty cylinder arm machine only sews as long as 5 to the inch. My big Cowboy CB4500 sews two to the inch, as does its little brother, the CB3200. Contact Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, or one of the other advertising dealers on our forum to see what they have that meets your requirements.

1/2 inch thickness. Stitching would be 5-9 spi.

Id prefer non electric because I want it to be as close to hand stitching as possible where its all handmade for belts.

Looking to make belts from 3-14 ounces is the average.

Two machines that I'm eyeing are the singer 136- 10X machine (can this stitch through 8-12 ounce leather?) or the singer 29k which is selling for 450.

Anyone know if the singer 136 w10X can be swapped to the rolling foot on any model from modern made stock. How much do these go for I can't find it online.

[Hi Im Joe]

1/2 inch thickness. Stitching would be 5-9 spi.

Id prefer non electric because I want it to be as close to hand stitching as possible where its all handmade for belts.

Looking to make belts from 3-14 ounces is the average.

Two machines that I'm eyeing are the singer 136- 10X machine (can this stitch through 8-12 ounce leather?) or the singer 29k which is selling for 450.

Anyone know if the singer 136 w10X can be swapped to the rolling foot on any model from modern made stock. How much do these go for I can't find it online.

Whether you hand crank it or use electric it's not going to look like handstitching. Also, you will get tired of handcranking it. Especially for belts and straps.

[pcox]

I have a 136w101 Max stitch length is 12 to the inch. it has a driven roller on the bottom and an unpowered roller on top and needle feed as the roller feed moves continuously. Mine will sew 20 ozs. of leather. will use 92 thread but likes 69 better. It is made for stitching VERY close to the edge on fine shoe uppers. I would sell it for $450

complete with table/motor

[DavidL]

I have a 136w101 Max stitch length is 12 to the inch. it has a driven roller on the bottom and an unpowered roller on top and needle feed as the roller feed moves continuously. Mine will sew 20 ozs. of leather. will use 92 thread but likes 69 better. It is made for stitching VERY close to the edge on fine shoe uppers. I would sell it for $450

complete with table/motor

Unfortunately I don't have the cash for it yet and was looking to buy it in a couple months time.

If you still have it and its in good condition I would be interested.

Are you located in Hamilton, Ontario?

[DavidL]

Whether you hand crank it or use electric it's not going to look like handstitching. Also, you will get tired of handcranking it. Especially for belts and straps.

Thats true. Im using it for areas where hand stitching will take far too long. I have used a normal sewing machine and don't like how it feels. Handcracking would be the closest in terms of feel to hand stitching and is more precise. As far as getting tired while hand cracking at least I won't have to stitch for 3 hours for a belt and thats good enough for me.

[Hi Im Joe]

Thats true. Im using it for areas where hand stitching will take far too long. I have used a normal sewing machine and don't like how it feels. Handcracking would be the closest in terms of feel to hand stitching and is more precise. As far as getting tired while hand cracking at least I won't have to stitch for 3 hours for a belt and thats good enough for me.

Servo motors are your answer. Can mash the pedal and regulate the speed with a dial. I just ordered one today....can't wait. Plus this leaves both hands free to guide the leather through the machine which will help with neatness and accuracy.

Or you can hand crank...when I bought my machine I though exactly the same way. I'll just handwheel everything. That did not last long for me.

[DavidL]

Servo motors are your answer. Can mash the pedal and regulate the speed with a dial. I just ordered one today....can't wait. Plus this leaves both hands free to guide the leather through the machine which will help with neatness and accuracy.

Or you can hand crank...when I bought my machine I though exactly the same way. I'll just handwheel everything. That did not last long for me.

Thanks il keep that in mind. I think the singer 136 is what I'm looking for it has a wheel if I want to hand wheel it and I can use the motor too.

[Hi Im Joe]

Thanks il keep that in mind. I think the singer 136 is what I'm looking for it has a wheel if I want to hand wheel it and I can use the motor too.

Best of both worlds.

[Kevin]

I have a post machine I put on an old Singer treadle stand. You just have to put a larger pulley on the machine, its too hard to pedal otherwise.

[DavidL]

I have a post machine I put on an old Singer treadle stand. You just have to put a larger pulley on the machine, its too hard to pedal otherwise.

Does the pulley have any effect on the hand crank on the side? I think Il have to find a machine with a larger hand crank like the one shown in the video. Are these hand cranks able to be replaced?

[pcox]

The one in the video is something that has been added by someone. The standard wheel is about 4 inches across.

I live in Hamilton Missouri, USA

[Wizcrafts]

DavidL;

I strongly suggest that you take some leather and visit nearby industrial sewing machine dealers. Show them the material and thickness you want to sew, tell them your budget, then see the nearest suitable machine or machines that can meet your minimum requirements.

As for your earlier reply to my question asking how thick you wanted to sew, your answer was 1/2 inch. I only know of one post machine capable of sewing 1/2 inch thickness: a Puritan chainstitch machine.

If you really meant you want to sew a stitch 1/2 long, I don't know any post machines that can do that. Most sew very tiny stitches. The ones I used to own managed up to 6 stitches per inch. But, I had to dink with the stitch length adjuster on the end of the handwheel to get even that length.

A previous poster was correct about the handwheels on the old Singer post machines. They are about 4 inches in diameter.

Now, if you want to get serious about this, get yourself a new 441 clone, sold, serviced and supported by one of our member-dealers. Or, buy one from a local industrial sewing machine dealer who will offer after-sales support. You are going to need it if you have little or no experience with industrial sewing machines. Expect to pay between $1600 to $3,000 dollars, depending on the make and accessories ordered.

A budget of $400 will only get you an old clunker that in all likelihood won't meet any of your expectations. I know this because I went through it when I started sewing leather. I wasted a lot of time, leather and money figuring this out.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Wizcrafts

[DavidL]

Im willing to spend a bit more, but not in the 1000+ range yet. I'd like a simple beginner machine to just start off on and the singer 136 looks like a good trade off in price and quality (correct me if I'm wrong). When I'm ready to upgrade I will pick up a heavy duty machine like the 441 and keep the singer 136 for small projects. Im unfamiliar with sewing machines, so I assumed that most machines could sew 1.2 cm of leather.

12 ounces - 4.8mm is the max I will stitch.

The machine that the women (singer 136) had in the video seems to work well on shoe uppers roughly 3mm and didn't look to be that bad. Can machines like the singer 136 be able to stitch 8mm if I need to. Any other suggestions to similar machines like the singer 136.

I'd like to hear your opinions on vintage sewing machines. A person I know overseas has a few machines costing three to four thousand and talked about how the metal contacting the material slowly bends and becomes more precise as it ages. Don't know how true that is but he has 2-3 machines that he uses daily that he says are better than new machines.

[Wizcrafts]

I just now Grokked why we have been having a failure to communicate: You are not on the US measurements scale. Doh!

Let me try to translate for you.

When I say 1/2 inch, it means 12.5 mm in your system. One inch = ~25mm. 1/4" = 'about' 6mm. 8 ounces = 1/8" = ~3mm

So, the ancient post machine you are hung up on cannot sew 12mm stitch lengths. It will be lucky to sew 3mm to 3.5mm stitches, at best.

The maximum thickness, of SOFT leather it will sew is about 4 to 5 mm.

The old Singer post machines don't have any place to mount an edge guide. You will have to get a dealer to fabricate one, or find a way to attach a drop down guide on the rear of the left side of the machine. Expect to spend about $150 to buy a drop down guide and have it professionally installed.

Roller foot post machines were built that way. They are not converted from a regular straight stitch machine. The feed dog is circular and turns continuously in one direction as you sew. Regular feed dogs oscillate, moving forward to feed, then dropping down, moving forward and lifting again to feed the material. This is called drop feed. A straight stitch machine can have a roller foot substituted for its standard foot, but the feed will still be drop feed.

Modern roller foot machines are available with a driven top roller.

I strongly suspect that you have chosen the wrong type of sewing machine. Have you looked into cylinder arm, walking foot machines?

[Wizcrafts]

One more thing. The old Singer post machine you mentioned is pretty much limited to using #69 bonded thread (aka T70), with a #110 (#18 US) needle (leatherpoint). That is what I found on the two such machines I owned. You may use smaller needles, such as a #11 or 12, with #46 bonded nylon (T50) thread. This would be for fine detailed pattern sewing on Cowboy boots, at 20 stitches per inch (25mm).

leather belts are normally sewn with at least T70 and larger thread. Only the thinnest belts, say under 3mm, would have #69 (T70) thread. Once you cross over 3 to 4 mm, T90 would be better. Thicknesses from 5mm to 6mm are better sewn with T135. This is already beyond the range your old post machine can handle.

FYI: I just sewed a double bridle leather belt yesterday, with #277 bonded thread, top and bottom. Only the biggest of the big machines can tension such thread and still hold down the leather as the needle ascends. This thread is four times the thickness.and strength of the largest thread the old Singer post machine can handle

[DavidL]

thanks for that info, I'll check out a different machine then.

Im pretty much set on a vintage machine that can be hand cranked or treadled, sews thin leathers and thickness up to 8mm.

The only machine that I know that is modern and what I'm looking for is the tippman boss, however the boss is 1000 used.

Would the singer leather patcher 29k work well for simple use sewing with .58mm thread (tex270 I think). 7 SPI.