What Machine Is This?

[Wizcrafts]

DavidL;

I strongly suggest that you take some leather and visit nearby industrial sewing machine dealers. Show them the material and thickness you want to sew, tell them your budget, then see the nearest suitable machine or machines that can meet your minimum requirements.

As for your earlier reply to my question asking how thick you wanted to sew, your answer was 1/2 inch. I only know of one post machine capable of sewing 1/2 inch thickness: a Puritan chainstitch machine.

If you really meant you want to sew a stitch 1/2 long, I don't know any post machines that can do that. Most sew very tiny stitches. The ones I used to own managed up to 6 stitches per inch. But, I had to dink with the stitch length adjuster on the end of the handwheel to get even that length.

A previous poster was correct about the handwheels on the old Singer post machines. They are about 4 inches in diameter.

Now, if you want to get serious about this, get yourself a new 441 clone, sold, serviced and supported by one of our member-dealers. Or, buy one from a local industrial sewing machine dealer who will offer after-sales support. You are going to need it if you have little or no experience with industrial sewing machines. Expect to pay between $1600 to $3,000 dollars, depending on the make and accessories ordered.

A budget of $400 will only get you an old clunker that in all likelihood won't meet any of your expectations. I know this because I went through it when I started sewing leather. I wasted a lot of time, leather and money figuring this out.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Wizcrafts

[DavidL]

Im willing to spend a bit more, but not in the 1000+ range yet. I'd like a simple beginner machine to just start off on and the singer 136 looks like a good trade off in price and quality (correct me if I'm wrong). When I'm ready to upgrade I will pick up a heavy duty machine like the 441 and keep the singer 136 for small projects. Im unfamiliar with sewing machines, so I assumed that most machines could sew 1.2 cm of leather.

12 ounces - 4.8mm is the max I will stitch.

The machine that the women (singer 136) had in the video seems to work well on shoe uppers roughly 3mm and didn't look to be that bad. Can machines like the singer 136 be able to stitch 8mm if I need to. Any other suggestions to similar machines like the singer 136.

I'd like to hear your opinions on vintage sewing machines. A person I know overseas has a few machines costing three to four thousand and talked about how the metal contacting the material slowly bends and becomes more precise as it ages. Don't know how true that is but he has 2-3 machines that he uses daily that he says are better than new machines.

[Wizcrafts]

I just now Grokked why we have been having a failure to communicate: You are not on the US measurements scale. Doh!

Let me try to translate for you.

When I say 1/2 inch, it means 12.5 mm in your system. One inch = ~25mm. 1/4" = 'about' 6mm. 8 ounces = 1/8" = ~3mm

So, the ancient post machine you are hung up on cannot sew 12mm stitch lengths. It will be lucky to sew 3mm to 3.5mm stitches, at best.

The maximum thickness, of SOFT leather it will sew is about 4 to 5 mm.

The old Singer post machines don't have any place to mount an edge guide. You will have to get a dealer to fabricate one, or find a way to attach a drop down guide on the rear of the left side of the machine. Expect to spend about $150 to buy a drop down guide and have it professionally installed.

Roller foot post machines were built that way. They are not converted from a regular straight stitch machine. The feed dog is circular and turns continuously in one direction as you sew. Regular feed dogs oscillate, moving forward to feed, then dropping down, moving forward and lifting again to feed the material. This is called drop feed. A straight stitch machine can have a roller foot substituted for its standard foot, but the feed will still be drop feed.

Modern roller foot machines are available with a driven top roller.

I strongly suspect that you have chosen the wrong type of sewing machine. Have you looked into cylinder arm, walking foot machines?

[Wizcrafts]

One more thing. The old Singer post machine you mentioned is pretty much limited to using #69 bonded thread (aka T70), with a #110 (#18 US) needle (leatherpoint). That is what I found on the two such machines I owned. You may use smaller needles, such as a #11 or 12, with #46 bonded nylon (T50) thread. This would be for fine detailed pattern sewing on Cowboy boots, at 20 stitches per inch (25mm).

leather belts are normally sewn with at least T70 and larger thread. Only the thinnest belts, say under 3mm, would have #69 (T70) thread. Once you cross over 3 to 4 mm, T90 would be better. Thicknesses from 5mm to 6mm are better sewn with T135. This is already beyond the range your old post machine can handle.

FYI: I just sewed a double bridle leather belt yesterday, with #277 bonded thread, top and bottom. Only the biggest of the big machines can tension such thread and still hold down the leather as the needle ascends. This thread is four times the thickness.and strength of the largest thread the old Singer post machine can handle

[DavidL]

thanks for that info, I'll check out a different machine then.

Im pretty much set on a vintage machine that can be hand cranked or treadled, sews thin leathers and thickness up to 8mm.

The only machine that I know that is modern and what I'm looking for is the tippman boss, however the boss is 1000 used.

Would the singer leather patcher 29k work well for simple use sewing with .58mm thread (tex270 I think). 7 SPI.

[Constabulary]

You can hand crank or treadle almost every machine, even the modern ones it just depends on how you set it up.

Is it important for you to have a post bed machine? Or does a flat bed or cylinder bed machine work too?

Check Craigslist if you can find something local or check Ebay or some dealers in your era as most of them have used machines in good working condition. A member just shot a Singer 111G156 for just 50$ on Ebay and another member shot an Adler 167 for just $100 from Craigslist. I´m sure you can find some vintage Singer 111 series (flat bed) or 153 series (cylinder bed) machines or something similar for a good price. They are durable and long living but they may need some overhauling due to their age. And parts are still available and not very expensive. These machines and their clones from Consew, Juki, Brother and so on are wide spread.

Check out the the thread of the member Hi Im Joe - He started with the idea of a small domestic machine and finally has found a nice Adler 167 for just $100.

So good / cheap / vintage machines are out there you just have to look around and you probably have to take the "pain" to restore them a little bit.

If you don´t have the time you have to buy something new that works out of the box.

I have restored all my machines and never bought a new one as sewing is just a (nice) hobby and I cannot spend a couple of $ grands for it. But all machines work fine and all are vintage and 40 - 50 years old and all turned out quite nice and are well working now! BUT I had to learn a lot. I bought some machines that where not suitable for me but it does not matter as I went through a learning process and I´m still learning new things every day.

What are you planing to do / produce with your machine? I think it is easier to find a machine this way than checking every detail of single machines you come across randomly. Members here are very helpful but they just can give you a helping hand at the end YOU have to make the decisions.

[Hi Im Joe]

Many thanks again to Constabulary for the information and help with identifying good leather sewing machines.

[Wizcrafts]

Would the singer leather patcher 29k work well for simple use sewing with .58mm thread (tex270 I think). 7 SPI.

Not in this timeline. Maybe in an alternate future universe. A Singer 29k71 or 29k172 - both of which are in my shop - cannot sew thicker than 1/4 inch (6mm), nor with any thread larger than #92 (T90). Th k71 has a bobbin the size of three US nickes stacked together. The k172 has a bobbin the size of a quarter, stacked thrice. They hold enough #69 thread to sew several zippers onto jackets. Even if they could sew with thicker thread, the bobbins would run out after two or three feet (1 Canadian yardstick).

We have machines for sale that can sew with .58mm thread. They are built by Campbell-Randall. Known as needle and awl machines, they sell for upwards of $6,000.

[Fat Dog Leather]

DavidL,

The very old and vintage machines are fun and what I too wanted....purest to sew with a crank or treadle. The old Singer 29-4 I have is in great shape (c.1909) but has many draw backs as mentioned above, the biggest is its diffulculties to sew long consistent runs.... Therefore called patch machine for a reason. I also have a vintage Singer post bed as in the video...(it also has limitations as mentioned although less), but can sew right to the edge of very soft material -mine came from a glove factory. As I ventured along I have settled on a flat bed Pfaff (1960) walking foot and a Cobra 4. Both of which allow me to hit the ends of the material spectrum along with the post machine.....But it has been a learning experience which I hopefully will continue to progress in.

This site has been a great reference for me and I thank all the machine experts for your kind words of wisdom!

Best of luck to you!

[Constabulary]

Maybe a Singer 45K is something for you. It is vintage, not very expensive (most of the times - but there are some who wants an arm and a leg for them), it has a large heavy hand wheel, it easily takes the heavy thread and has a quite large bobbing, they are built like tanks and standard parts are still available. You can find them as cylinder bed and flat bed. Cylinder beds are a more expensive than flat beds.

The lady in the video has one too as it seems.

Just an idea...