Finishing Edges On Natural Veg Tan.

[zaynexpetty]

Hi all,

I am having issues getting a nice clean burnish on natural (un-dyed) veg tan.

This is my process:

I sand with 80 grit to make edges even and square if necessary.

Sand edges with medium and then fine.

Trim the edges with a tandy edge beveler.

Wet the edges with small wool dauber as neatly as I can.

Burnish with a wooden hand burnisher (picture below, I wonder if the burnisher I am using isn't the best).

Then I add beeswax to the edge, and burnish again with the same wooden burnisher.

My problem is, I am not getting a very clean edge. After I put water on the edge and do the first burnish, water leaks or is pushed onto the face of the leather, away from the edge, either by the burnishing, or just by the water itself. It makes the face look messy and the edge not like like a straight edge.

This would be easy to hide if I were to dye the leather before my final burnish, but it looks really messy on natural leather, and honestly, I would like to just have a solid method that looks good regardless if I dye or not. I have read hidepounders tutorial on finishing edges, but I don't really want to use the paste or paraffin, I am trying to keep it to beeswax/water, or any other natural product.

Thanks!

[DavidL]

paraffin and glycerin are natural products I believe. you can use it if chemical base stuff is an issue.

Look into heating tools (soldering iron) and Fenice edge paints they are what I'm looking at and they don't mess the face of the leather.

A sponge with water or the paste spread on with the wallet held above the sponge/ rag and dabbing downwards is an option.

[zaynexpetty]

paraffin and glycerin are natural products I believe. you can use it if chemical base stuff is an issue.

Look into heating tools (soldering iron) and Fenice edge paints they are what I'm looking at and they don't mess the face of the leather.

A sponge with water or the paste spread on with the wallet held above the sponge/ rag and dabbing downwards is an option.

The only problem with glycerin is that I have read that some animals might be allergic to it, and I plan on making dog collars, I would like to be able to use the same products throughout all of my items. I also know that paraffin is a petroleum derivative and can be harmful.

What would I use a soldering iron for? I have one, but hadn't thought that it might be useful in leatherwork. What do you use one for?

Thanks

[DavidL]

It replaces the edge slicker and burnisher part of the process and replaces it with special edge paint thats part wax(?) part dye and the heat from the iron smooths out the wax and the edge is smoothed out. It may or may not be able to be done with a edger, I don't see why it can't.

[zaynexpetty]

Do you have an example of what technique is used as far as the iron is concerned? Do you think just using beeswax would do the same thing, rather than the "special edge paint"?

[DavidL]

Beeswax is a finishing step after the paint. The tandy pro Fenice paint is available through tandy. glue plus reg. edge paint could work. I tested out reg. transparent glue only and its melts the glue to give it a smooth transparent edge.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Peter-Nitz/182186731147

halfway down there is a video.

Edited August 24, 2014 by DavidL

[Macca]

Such bad advice here..

for veg tan, look at Bob's excellent tutorial http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=18101

& ignore any advice about soldering irons & paint

[risa]

I've had that experience as well. I think the edges are too wet and the water seeps too deep and softens the edge, especially on single layer edges without any stiches. When I burnish on an edge that's too wet, it concaves on that edge.

I'll dampen the edge with a wrung out canvass, and mount it on a pony to help burnish with even pressure.

I'll try to attach a pic of the problem area and the stitched edge that I was happy with. Both just water and a nylon slicker on veg tan.

[risa]

http://instagram.com/p/sEynE9JrxR/ concaved edge

http://instagram.com/p/sEy5WQprxn/ happy edge

[DavidL]

I wouldn't rule out soldering iron and edge paint its a legit way of finishing edges (especially since you already have a soldering iron). Its totally up to you though, the european way (edge paint + soldering iron) works on all types of leathers from veg tan to chrome and pull up, where the traditional way of burnishing does not, which is what you have ask for and works well for me.

The soldering iron route does not need any paste of any sort, no paraffin, or duck canvas, just sanding, edge paint (or your own recipe of natural dye and something like wax), light brief sanding then touch up that the paint didn't set properly, and add beeswax (optional) and rub with fingers.

Cuts down on my time and never had an edge go bad so far.

Edited August 24, 2014 by DavidL

[Macca]

The European way is most certainly not a soldering iron & edge paint, thats a botched up work around you have working for you on a few pieces you have done.

I assume you are trying to refer to using a Fileteuse & wax, that it used by a very small number of workers over here & does produce good results on difficult leathers, expensive tool as its designed to get to & maintain a regulated temperature for leather, its not a soldering iron.

The European way as you call it, is hand burnishing, gum arabic or animal glue.

OP, as mentioned, Bob did a great tutorial on burnishing http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=18101

[DavidL]

I have some good pieces made with a cheap iron and I don't even have the edge paint yet, who doesnt mess up while they are practicing? Edge painting is actually easier in my opinion since its hard to mess up the face of the leather because the only liquid touching is the edge paint vs saddle soap, glycerin, ect.

A mid - high level soldering iron like a japanese hakko brand (90 dollars) can set the temp. exact to the degree and has flat tips. Some european brands (either louis vuitton or prada) use a soldering iron (probably $100-150 with pointed tip and temp control) .Campbell randall also sells a soldering iron for 200 made specifically for heating the edge.

Different styles to leather working. Just like there are different styles of Fighting like western boxing or karate, ones not better than the other, which ever one you prefer is up to whoever it is. I prefer using whatever works well and it tends to be different techniques that are either japanese, western, european as long as the results look like I intend them to be.

[Macca]

No, you prefer whatever you THINK is the quickest & advise everyone to do the same, you now say you don't even have the edge paint, why recommend it ???

& FFS, they don't use soldering irons in Europe, I've told you what the tool is, a Fileteuse manuelle, sold by Mando.fr, used primarily for chromed & exotic leathers. The control is not the same a soldering iron, look at the bits sold with it, any of them look like soldering iron bits ? No, the temp control on a soldering iron would not work with so much metal on the end.

I have seen people using an iron with very hard wax & dye, I still would not recommend it, especially on natural veg tan.

I would have thought, anyone who has the gall to even think of using the name Atelier would understand the benefits of putting the hours in to understand the fundamental techniques & not continue to look for shortcuts before they even have the basics down.

[DavidL]

I've done both ways and spent at least a few hours burnishing and recently started trying the heat tool. In my personal opinion I prefer the heat tool and the burnishing (hide pounder technique) is the way to go in my opinion for saddles and heat tool when working with chrome, and pull up and thinner veg tan which are nearly impossible (except the veg) to burnish without the heat tool and is a more versatile. Burnishing requires a lot of time unless you have an electric edge burnisher, but the results are good.

In a production atmosphere edge painting shouldn't be ruled out and burnishing with an electric burnisher is equally as good (apples vs oranges), but when it comes to being able to use one technique throughout your whole line of goods

heat burnishing can be used for everything. Although vegtan can burn so you have to adjust the heat to about half and work slower or a pre step has to be take to saddle soap the fibers down.

The difference between the soldering iron and the proper tool is that one is 150 dollars and the other is 2 thousand. The soldering iron provides 50% of what the proper tool can do it can heat up to exactly the right temperature and stay hot, but the real tool is the better equipment if you have the cash-flow or are willing to spend the extra amount. Otherwise an iron is a starter tool, it can however regulate the temperature as they are made for soldering expensive components and need to be at the exact temperature without dropping.

At the end of the day I'm not going to recommend the 2 thousand dollar tool as its possible to get it done with the iron, also louis vuitton or prada has used a soldering iron in one of their youtube videos. Il try to find it but the only thing necessary is the exact temperature and a hot tip, you could if you are serious about it get someone to machine a part like the flat fan type tip to fit into a hakko soldering iron.

personally I spent at least 200 actual hours try to perfect what I'm doing, most of which was saddle stitching, construction, and now recently I have been moving on to the "extra" parts of leather working which are edge finishing, sewing piping, handles, designing the patterns to that the pattern is perfectly aligned for turned edges, working with exotics. I think 3 or 4 years away from getting every little detail right and several more years from perfecting the art so to speak.

There are things I'm still learning as I'm moving along since i don't have a mentor or have the money, but I understand the fundamentals of leather working to a certain degree.

[Macca]

ughh..

enough

Look at the OP, asking for advice on his burnishing technique & you recommend edge paints you haven't even tried. Bob's tutorial is the perfect way to burnish natural veg tan.

Seriously David, stop recommending techniques, tools etc when you have no experience of them !

[AndersenLeather]

After you have bunished the edge with the slicker try to sand the edge down again. Yes thats right. Sand it down again. The first time I use around grit 180. Then bunish it again. If you are still not happy with the result repeat the process. Gradually use finer sandpaper. 320-400 is the finest that makes sense. Finer that that and it will not sand the edge but burnish it instead.

If you only wish to use natural products the this is the way i would do it:

Wet the edge with water. I use a molotow marker filled with water. it is better to user too little water than to much.

Burnish the edge. I use a small piece of sand paper grid 3000

Sand the edge with grid 180

Wet the edge

Burnish

Sand the edge with grid 320

Wet the edge

Burnish

Sand the edge with 320

Wet the edge

Burnish with sandpaper

Polish with canvas cloth. You could add beeswax at this point if you wish.

Look at the pictures to get an idea of what I am talking about. Note that the sandpaper I used had been used for black edges so sand edge looks a little black.

[DavidL]

Thats fair enough.

I do suggest that you could give it a shot if you don't like the look then you can pin it down to whats the best technique only once you try all the different ways and incorporate what works for you as everyone has a different technique. Maybe you may use an iron for the very last step to melt beeswax at a very low temp and before that you burnish with a

electric burnisher ect.

Once you find a your technique you will use it until you find something better but (hide pounder) probably tested out his technique and perfected it over the years until its down to a science, so I'm suggesting to just spend sometime to just experiment with heat, burnishing, waxes, different dyes and whatever, before just using hide pounders technique so that you can tweak his technique based on first hand experience.

[Turn n Burn]

You can make a dimmer switch wired to a plug and plug the solder iron in to it and control the heat that way also a cheap solder iron like wood burner has changeable tips i used the for wood burning until i got a pro unit.

[Red Cent]

Very little water and a dowel rod with sanded grooves. But first, understand that all veg tanned leather is not the same. I had to order some leather from a different vendor and, boy, did I get a surprise.

The point: We are not doing ourselves a service until we all realize one method that works on a rather stiff, dry piece of leather will not work on a soft "spongy" piece of leather. Or leather from two distributors or retailers will not burnish the same way.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=55573

[whipstitchwallets]

hey here's what i do:

1. sand

2. apply water with finger...very lightly, and only to the very edge. wood burnisher

3. apply gum trag (this is a natural product) with finger or q-tip, again very lightly, and only to very edge. wood burnisher

4. apply blend of beeswax paraffin and coconut oil. wood burnisher

5. canvas burnish

from here I'll either apply fiebing's aussie or do another cycle of gum trag with wood burnisher...maybe some more wax...I sort of go by feel.

This evolved slowly from beginning with hidepounder's thing, now it is completely different. I don't dye the edges so that sort of makes a lot in that tutorial unneeded.

I'm not a leading expert, but what I do know is from my own experience

[billybopp]

A question and an idea:

Q: To those that use beeswax, do you soften it somehow before using it to burnish, or just rub it along the edge. Some of the beeswax that I have is pretty hard stuff. It works OK on thread, but precious little seems to transfer to the edge when I try to use it for burnishing. Should I perhaps heat it a little, or would it be better to melt some with oil so that sets up a little softer?

Idea: I've been contemplating using a longish, thinish piece of wood with a U groove routed into it and a piece of canvas glued there. Something like a shaped sanding block. It seems that might help avoid the "dips" in the edge that sometimes occur with a round burnisher. I might even go so far as to channel all four sides to use with different dye colors to help avoid, for lack of a better phrase, "cross-contamination of color". It could also be possible to make different channel sizes and shapes if one had different size router bits, or whatever tools used. It might work as well with some sandpaper glued in for the initial sanding and shaping.

Thoughts??

Bill

[whipstitchwallets]

A question and an idea:

Q: To those that use beeswax, do you soften it somehow before using it to burnish, or just rub it along the edge. Some of the beeswax that I have is pretty hard stuff. It works OK on thread, but precious little seems to transfer to the edge when I try to use it for burnishing. Should I perhaps heat it a little, or would it be better to melt some with oil so that sets up a little softer?

When I used straight beeswax I heated it up with a heat gun (a blow dryer would work). It worked ok, but that is why i started mixing in the paraffin and coconut oil. The result glides right on. This is important to me as I work almost exclusively with 2-3 oz leather

[impulse]

I have tried a new approach to edge burnishing which is so quick and simple. Why buy expensive heating equipment when a canvas clad DIY burnisher creates ideal heat for melting in wax?

I make my own leather dressing from beeswax, neatsfoot oil (50/50) and a dash of eucalyptus oil to inhibit mould. This makes the beeswax workable and leaves a waterproof surface with a good shine.

After bevelling and sanding the edges, I stain if desired, apply the beeswax mix and then use the canvas burnisher. I do not use water or gum trag as these cool the edges. That's it! The beeswax penetrates the edges and hardens with the heat, leaving a smooth, shiny finish.

Lois

[Red Cent]

If the edges of the leather is flattening then you are using the wrong groove. I made my burnishing tools out of dowel rod and bolts and nuts. They have different widths and/or depths in the grooves to take care of the different thickness of leather. I always start with the grove that forms the edges inward and may not touch the top of the edge. After burnishing (btw, mine is a converted grinder), the burnished edges should be more hard than the top. After some more burnishing, I will change to a wider groove that touches the whole rounded edge.

Depending on the leather, you may have to sand at least once more. I dye almost all my edges after the water is evaporated. The dye contains agents that will dry out the leather quickly and provide better burnishing. And I may sand again after I dye. Again, a stiff, dry piece of leather will burnish a lot easier than a soft, supple, rather spongy piece of leather.

[thekid77]

Hi all,

I am having issues getting a nice clean burnish on natural (un-dyed) veg tan.

This is my process:

I sand with 80 grit to make edges even and square if necessary.

Sand edges with medium and then fine.

Trim the edges with a tandy edge beveler.

Wet the edges with small wool dauber as neatly as I can.

Burnish with a wooden hand burnisher (picture below, I wonder if the burnisher I am using isn't the best).

Then I add beeswax to the edge, and burnish again with the same wooden burnisher.

My problem is, I am not getting a very clean edge. After I put water on the edge and do the first burnish, water leaks or is pushed onto the face of the leather, away from the edge, either by the burnishing, or just by the water itself. It makes the face look messy and the edge not like like a straight edge.

This would be easy to hide if I were to dye the leather before my final burnish, but it looks really messy on natural leather, and honestly, I would like to just have a solid method that looks good regardless if I dye or not. I have read hidepounders tutorial on finishing edges, but I don't really want to use the paste or paraffin, I am trying to keep it to beeswax/water, or any other natural product.

Thanks!

with regard to wetting the edges, rather than using a dauber, which tends to hold lots of liquid, you could try using a Q-tip dipped in water and roll it over the edge to dampen it...this works for me, and the Q-tip seems to provide lots of control in terms of the amount of water applied and where exactly the water is applied (so you don't wind up getting any excess water onto the grain/flesh of the leather where you don't want it...just an idea, hope it helps

ps if I'm burnishing thinner leather, I'll touch the Q-tip onto a paper towel briefly just so I don't over-apply the water