Do I Really Need An Airbrush For Dying Leather With Acrylic Dye?

[Gump]

It is a Vaper hvlp touch up gun with 0.8mm nozzle. The listed spray pattern is 7.1- 9.8". I purchased it at Princess Auto. It lists for $34.99 cdn. Gump

[HC009]

Thank you for that Gump. Much appreciated.

[HC009]

Hi Gump, do you find the 100cc cup is enough to work with or does it get used up really fast and also do you have to do several coats of acrylic because it has to be thinned to be useable? Say for if you do 2 shoulders.

Edited September 13, 2014 by heavenlychoirs

[billybopp]

Keep in mind if you are to use a touch up paint gun that you need an air compressor that is matched to it. The little "silent" compressors that work fine with airbrushes will not provide enough airflow for a bigger paint gun.

Look at the spec for the gun you are getting. You should find a CFM (Cubic Feet / Minute) spec. The compressor should ideally provide more than that amount of air, or at least have a relatively large air tank if it doesn't provide that much air. Bigger compressors are usually also noisier, which may or may not be a factor for you, but give it a thought!

Hope that helps

Bill

[Colt W Knight]

If you are dying large areas, an airbrush is not the tool for the job. A small HVLP gravity fed spray gun ( used to spray automotive paint) is the way to go. You can get an inexpensive one from any major hardware dealer, even stores like Wal Mart. With a little practice, you can lay down some amazing color with a HVLP. Clean up is a cinch if you use water based products.

Here is a 12$ one from Harbor Freight I have used to paint custom electric guitars. These cheapos are prone to breaking, and don't hold adjustment well. But you don't need expensive paint guns to lay down a nice finish.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Colt W Knight

[Colt W Knight]

Keep in mind if you are to use a touch up paint gun that you need an air compressor that is matched to it. The little "silent" compressors that work fine with airbrushes will not provide enough airflow for a bigger paint gun.

Look at the spec for the gun you are getting. You should find a CFM (Cubic Feet / Minute) spec. The compressor should ideally provide more than that amount of air, or at least have a relatively large air tank if it doesn't provide that much air. Bigger compressors are usually also noisier, which may or may not be a factor for you, but give it a thought!

Hope that helps

Bill

Very true. Most smaller air compressors designed to run air tools will work to run a HVLP spray gun for smaller projects, however, since they have small compact tanks, they will probably run continuously while spraying because they don't have enough volume to keep up.

On projects where you are spraying paints like a guitar or car, the running compressor draws in a lot more moisture and heats up the air in the lines which messes with the paint job. I don't think this would be a problem with leather dyes though.

Another option would be to buy a turbine HVLP that does not require a compressor. If the OP didn't already have an air compressor, this might be a better route since the combined cost for a compressor and HVLP would be about the same as a turbine HVLP. Both would be loud.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Colt W Knight

[HC009]

Hi nice pictures! Colt W Knight - what size is the spray gun you are using and what kind of air compressor do you use?

[HC009]

Hi, I have found a spray gun with electric sprayer not compressor that is inexpensive and looks like it does a nice job.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Earlex-Paint-Spray-Station-1900/dp/B000V1YIT2

Edited September 14, 2014 by heavenlychoirs

[DavidL]

Hi, I have found a spray gun with electric sprayer not compressor that is inexpensive and looks like it does a nice job.

id like to know how it turns outs and if it works well.

Edited September 15, 2014 by DavidL

[DavidL]

I took a look at a few spray guns on amazon and of the electric sprayer that you posted. One thing I want to add just as a thought is that the spray gun has options of different size needles and are used by hobbyist, professionals and car buffs, where the electric sprayer is used by home owners. If you were to use the electric sprayer on a car I don't believe it will end up well. You may end up wanting to upgrade quickly onto a gun and compressor. I usually try to buy a tool that will work for at least 1-2 years in the future and not have to worry about needing to upgrade.

Since you have said it was for a business in a previous post, I would recommend that you look into HVLP(less overspray - less waste) spray guns $50-120 that are budget professional grade, they are made to handle base, clear and primer paint and are made for precision to get a flawless finish on a car. The electric sprayer is not made to the same standard I would believe.

The extra for the compressor would be worth it for the upgrade and would be a long term asset to your business.

It could be overkill, but just giving my insight. Your original budget was 600 USD and an iwata or devilbiss gun plus a compressor will run around 250. 200 for an entry no name HVLP gun and a compressor and a oil/water separator.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?69668-What-size-compressor-for-HVLP-sprayer

http://www.amazon.com/Iwata-IWA9230-AZ3HV2-13GC-HVLP-SPRAY/dp/B003YHHSY2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410773735&sr=8-1&keywords=iwata+gun

http://www.amazon.com/DeVilbiss-802405-StartingLine-Touch-Up-Gravity/dp/B0015PKQDK/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1410773783&sr=8-5&keywords=devilbiss

My rule I go by is before making a major purchase, look at every alternative, every brand or options and then choose from there, even if it takes a week (an hour a day). If i done this in the past I would of saved a lot on redundant tools. Its a habit I'm starting to form and Is useful for entrepreneurship because at the end of the day making simple mistakes constantly is the downfall of small businesses. Not to say mistakes aren't part of the learning curve but the mistakes should be minimized and prevented especially if it was from lack of research or if more time should have been spent researching in general.

Edited September 15, 2014 by DavidL

[HC009]

Yes DavidL you are absolutely right. I have gone for the cheapest option before and regretted it (many times!). I will investigate and post back. As you have probably guessed I am CLUELESS about this topic so this forum and the web are my only ways of finding things out. I will post back with the results of my findings. But having said that, we just want to get the paint down onto the material in a fine mist in the easiest way possible.

Edited September 15, 2014 by heavenlychoirs

[DavidL]

I also don't know which would be the best route, but the electric spray gun is hit or miss. Spray gun is more customizable, less overspray and more even spray. Price difference is 100 dollars from electric spray to spray gun. Even less if the compressor can be bought second hand.

I do know that with the spray gun you can run it on a 6 gallon air compressor, most people run it on 20+ gallon tanks for cars, on a few sq feet this shouldn't be an issue. The cfm may not be high enough at 6. Maybe someone with experience will chime in.

http://www.amazon.com/California-Air-Tools-CAT-6310-6-3-Gallon/dp/B00889ZYPQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1410782670&sr=8-2&keywords=california+air+compressor

Edited September 15, 2014 by DavidL

[HC009]

I have read a lot of reviews of this product now and most people are raving about it and one person even said it can do a very fine mist too. The alternative is an air compressor and spray gun - for the one I want (HVLP Gravity Fed Spray Gun Professional by Bergen AT013) that holds around 600ml capacity of liquid you need a compressor of at least 2hp and really a 50 litre tank to best run this, as will need around 6-8 cdm. That air compressor however starts at around £150 and the spray gun is £30. So £180 in total which is not expensive for as DavidL says for longevity it's worth it, but I want to try this Earlex as it just seems so easy to use and to clean you just spray thinners through it into a bucket. Can anyone clear things up? I just reason if I am having to do 5 coats of thinned acrylic paint onto leather I just want the least hassle possible solution. With the Earlex maybe I won't even have to thin it that much as the video guidelines show the ideal viscosity as being that of the angelus acrylic paint. Like you say DavidL this is a hit or miss option.

Edited September 15, 2014 by heavenlychoirs

[DavidL]

A lvlp gun (closest thing to a large pattern spraying airbrush) uses less cfm than a HVLP and at a lower psi, and has less overspray than both an airless electric gun and HVLP. The finish and paint efficiency is the best with a lvlp compared to airless or even HVLP (its hard to find any discussion on the web. At such a high psi the airless would probably create a LOT of overspray (paint 30-40% waste). Painting a house with a roller uses more paint even than the wasted amount from the overspray.

The electric sprayer shoots at 3000psi (can go lower depending on setting) vs 15ish psi for lvlp and 28 psi for HVLP. It is meant to shoot out thick paint, but can probably reach lower to 1000ish psi (a guess) for stains.

I found a bigger compressor in the USA - 20 gallon compressor, there may be something similar in the UK for the same price ($179 USD) http://www.harborfreight.com/21-gal-25-hp-125-psi-cast-iron-vertical-air-compressor-61693.html. It would be more than enough to run the machine for a long time on a lvlp. You may be able to get away with a 6 gallon if you pause for a few moments to let the compressor kick on every minute or however long.

In real life situation to spray an entire hide would take 25 seconds, if even that per coat. Over time you will save the money on the wasted paint and have a better gun if you go with an lvlp compared to airless.

Always look at promotional videos from the company itself with a grain of salt as they obviously won't say that its a bad product or has any flaws. Also the reviews are subjective as they are spraying walls and not worrying about paint waste, longevity or getting a perfect finish on an item that is small and can be easily noticed.

The airless is still an option though for its cheap price for temporary use, unless paint waste isn't a factor.

Edited September 15, 2014 by DavidL

[Colt W Knight]

I use a variety of spray guns, but they are all pretty standard size hvlp guns designed for automotive use. I think they generally have 1.4 mm tip for the larger ones and .8 mm for the detail guns. I use very large 60-80 Gallo air compressors because I also utilize them to run pneumatic tools like impact wrenches and die grinders.

Cheaper spray guns are less durable, don't hold adjustment as well, and don't atomize paint as well. However, those might not be an issue with leather dyes. Dye is lot different than trying to get automotive paint to lay down as smooth as possible.

You might also be better off with a siphon fed gun. You could keep all your different color dyes in different cups, and have an extra cup full of cleaner/solvent to flush/clean switching from color to color.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Colt W Knight

[Colt W Knight]

I would completely avoid electric sprayers. Everyone I have ever used either broke, or didn't function anywhere near as well as a pneumatic spray gun.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Colt W Knight

[DavidL]

would you say a LVLP gun (rated at 3 cfm) w/ a 1.3mm tip and a 2hp motor w/ 20gallon tank compressor work in a real situation with a 20 sq foot hide? Based on what I read it looks promising, the lvlp shoots more efficiently and requires less cfm from the compressor.

Would this compressor and spray gun combo from full tank to empty be able to spray for a minute before the compressor kicks in. If the tank runs out of air and the compressor is running would their be a difference in the airflow? I plan to set the compressor away in another room or in a small closet to prevent the heat from effecting the air.

I use a variety of spray guns, but they are all pretty standard size hvlp guns designed for automotive use. I think they generally have 1.4 mm tip for the larger ones and .8 mm for the detail guns. I use very large 60-80 Gallo air compressors because I also utilize them to run pneumatic tools like impact wrenches and die grinders.

Cheaper spray guns are less durable, don't hold adjustment as well, and don't atomize paint as well. However, those might not be an issue with leather dyes. Dye is lot different than trying to get automotive paint to lay down as smooth as possible.

You might also be better off with a siphon fed gun. You could keep all your different color dyes in different cups, and have an extra cup full of cleaner/solvent to flush/clean switching from color to color.

Edited September 16, 2014 by DavidL

[Colt W Knight]

I don't have much real experience with lvlp. So take this with a grain of salt.

I do not think you can cover a hide that quickly with a lvlp. I think you will want a hvlp to get the volume up. That leather is going to literally suck up the dye you spray on it like a sponge.

I doubt that compressor will not run during use with a spray gun. That doesn't mean it can't keep up on small projects though. It's just going to be noisy. Ideally the compressor will keep about 120-140 psi in its tank. You will have a pressure gauge on the tank to adjust how much psi the compressor will hold before the motor kicks on and starts refill ING the tank. You will have another gauge that allows you to set the pressure to the Ling going to the gun. I generally set mine about 60-80 psi. Then you can pit a gauge on the gun itself that will allow you to control the psi entering the gun, ~30 psi. Then you fine tune the spray with the adjustment knobs on the gun.

If the pressure gets to low, the gun will start to spray different and you can just release the trigger and watch the gauge till its ready to go again.

If the pressure gets to low, the gun will start to spray different and you can just release the trigger and watch the gauge till its ready to go again.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Colt W Knight

[DavidL]

I was looking at the videos of lvlp and they spray almost the same as the HVLP with less of overspray. I was under the impression that the lvlp is the same as a HVLP, yet spraying paint at 60 percent air pressure of a HVLP preventing the overspray. I may get a LVLP and a cheap HVLP dedicated for resolene.

Thank you for the info about the compressor. Its really helpful.

Edited September 16, 2014 by DavidL

[HC009]

Right, I have bought one of these flaming Earlex machines now for £60 and will post back on here the results in a few days.

[HC009]

Hi, I have now tested the Earlex diy spray station with Angelus acrylic paint thinned down to the right consistency and have found that this machine works great! There is hardly any overspray and it sprays out an even pattern / mist of paint which you can adjust so theres either a lot of paint coming out or hardly any at all so it's a very fine mist. I noticed the trigger gets stuck a bit but that's easy to fix. All in all I am very happy with this purchase and cannot wait to use it on some leather as I only tested it out on some pieces of cardboard. The only problem with it is the fan motor is quite loud like a loud hoover.

[HC009]

Another thing I forgot to add is it is a bit flimsy as in it's a very basic bit of kit and in the instructions it tells you that the gland nut will wear out and need to be replaced. It is not built like a proper car spray gun. But I would prefer this thing because I can always replace the parts as the company is very helpful / has a good reputation or when it packs up, for the price and can go and buy another one.

[Colt W Knight]

Glad that turbine system is working for you.

[HC009]

Hi, I just rang a tannery up and they say they can custom colour a 2mm shoulder including the leather for around £70! If an undyed shoulder cost £50-£60 and paint costs around £25 then it doesn't make sense anymore to dye your hides yourself! She is getting back to me on the specifics but said they charge £6 a square foot for custom colours.

Edited September 26, 2014 by heavenlychoirs

[DavidL]

At nearly 10 USD the quality would be good I imagine, do factor in VAT if it isn't already factored. At 75 USD for Angelus paint for a gallon - 3.7 litres, you can probably do 10-18 sides or 20-34 shoulders (2 thin coats) if you cut out patterns then spray - just an estimate, someone who using acrylics on whole hides or paints with a spray gun may know a closer estimate.

$8 USD X 10sq shoulder =80

75 dollar paint / 28 shoulders = $2.5 per shoulder

= 82.5 USD own shoulder vs 100 USD pre dyed shoulder (Do try to find out what process they use for dyeing - drum dyed or hand dyed)

After 4 shoulders dyed yourself it would cost you the same amount of money as 4 pre dyed shoulders. After 16 more shoulders - 360 USD dollars saved, downside is that you have to provide the labour and pay for mess ups if you can't get the consistent quality. Dyeing yourself can increase your profit margins if you can get a similar finish as store bought.

Typically painting leather yourself is the cheaper route, more time wasting and if your a beginner there is a learning curve I would imagine.

Upside to it is that from one hide you can get different colours and colours can be mixed.

From what I know tanneries use very similar dyes to the ones leatherworkers use, although they could very well be fiebings or custom made dyes.

Drum dyed leather is unlikely to be replicated . Other companies like Horweens have a multi week finishing process that would also be nearly impossible to replicate.

Good Luck