Do These Machines Have Value?

[Evo160K]

One is a Singer 45K25 A222 serial number EC636333, the other is an Adler 30-15 serial number 101027.

They're being offered to me by a gentleman who saw the Claes 8345 long-arm patcher I'm restoring for myself. He thinks the two have some issues, but doesn't know what. A price hasn't been discussed.

I don't sew and I don't know anything about the two machines, although the Adler looks similar to the machine I'm restoring. I'm doing it because I admired the looks. It was used in the business where I worked for years. Well it quickly became apparent they can become a money pit.

If I can re-sell the two as is, that's fine, I turned them over by hand, which doesn't tell me much. The Adler felt similar to my machine, but the Singer shocked me by how tight and smooth it is. I'd like to keep that machine just for the quality, but that wouldn't make sense. They must be exceptional machines.

Realistically, it would be a mistake for me to try to restore them judging by the difficulty and time involved with the Claes, although it is shaping up well. Your thoughts on what I should pay for them and what I can do with them would be much appreciated. TIA..

[silverbullet]

Both of those machines are of good quality still lots in use now , I own an Adler like it comes in handy quite often. Also I have an Adler copy of he 45 singer . That machine will work good on leather up to about 3/8 " . I think both could or should bring about a thousand each maybe more if really good condition parts can be had Bob Kovar hs a lot of parts and knows them like the back of his hand he's at Toledo sewing on the top banners here. Great to do business with too fair on price and can't beat the help the two Bobs can give. Gary

[Constabulary]

A thousand or more is too much I´d say. Thats probably a dealer price but as a private seller I think 400 - 700 is realistic.

It depends on how the market in your era is. If you want to sell them fast the price has to be quite low but if you have storage space and the time to wait for a customer who really wants exactly the machine you offer you can ask a bit more I´d say.

The 45K has no reverse and it is 1940 built (according to the serial number). New build Chinese versions of it cost 995 w/o reverse to 1295 with reverse but they are new and come with servo motor, speed reducer, table, warranty, a dealer service and so forth. So I don´t see a thousand for the 45K. I think 400-500 is realistic. If it had reverse maybe a 100 more but it is w/o reverse.

The Adler 30 is one of the later models, the early ones are all black but the greenish ones are about 1950´s - 1960´s build as far as I know. And since it is a 15 subclass (double digit) it probably is from the 1970´s I guess. So it is a "relatively new" machine compared with the black Adler 30´s in general. Considering the overall optical condition I´d say you can get 500 - 600 for it - maybe more but I don´t know how the prices in the US are for these machines. The documentation for this machine is quite good, I think I have a manual and a mechanics instruction PDF so I can add it here if you want.

BTW - ask if the machine come with some accessories and / or spare parts. This would be a big advantage as parts are quite expensive and you can make some more $.

I´d test them before you pay big $ and if they don´t work you have to be careful. Look for manuals in advance, read them so you don´t look like a fool when you are testing them. In general the needle and hook timing are not a too big issue on either machine. But I cannot judge the overall condition from the distance.

Asks the seller how much he wants and don´t make offers otherwise he will probably go up with the price.

I personally would buy both but depends on the price and if they are in working condition or not, if parts are missing or not and if the machines probably have extra accessories or spare parts. As I said, if it is just the needle / hook timing it would not be a big issue.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Constabulary

[Constabulary]

BTW - what I can tell from the pictures is that both machines DO NOT have the bobbin winder installed. So check if they are present or not. I have one for the 45K if it does not come with the machine.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=58471&p=376093

Edited September 25, 2014 by Constabulary

[Darren Brosowski]

Minor issues with both machines.

45k bobbin winder is readily available and I suspect that a 29k (or Chinese equivalent) bobbin winder will fit the ADLER.

The 45k appears to have a reduction pulley set so speeds should be good.

Both machines are a great addition to any leather shop but as is from a private seller I would not pay more than $1000 for the pair.

[Constabulary]

What you see is not a reduction, it is a separated clutch.

See where the chain from the pedal goes to. Some early "electrified" heavy machines had these separated clutches. Adler used them as well. You sometimes find them on top of the table and sometimes underneath the table as in this case.

Will see if I can find my old Adler brochures...

[Constabulary]

got em - see pictures

[Constabulary]

@ Evo160K

So your estimated sale price could be about 800 -1100 but then they should be fully functional.

But when you buy them to make some money expect that you probably have to invest some money (in case the bobbin winders are missing and so forth) to put them back into a fully functional condition. Bobbin winders are an easy task - nothing you need special knowledge for.

So if you can get them for about $200 each (or even less) you should be able to make a nice profit.

At the end it is your decision. Keep in mind that you have to find a customer. But If I were you I´d buy them if the price is good.

[Darren Brosowski]

Singer used them too and some were up or down speed units with a clutch

What you see is not a reduction, it is a separated clutch.

See where the chain from the pedal goes to. Some early "electrified" heavy machines had these separated clutches. Adler used them as well. You sometimes find them on top of the table and sometimes underneath the table as in this case.

Will see if I can find my old Adler brochures...

[Evo160K]

Constabulary, Darren Brosowski and Silverbullet, thank you, thank you very much. That's exactly the information I need. I'll look at the machines again, see what additional parts are present and report back. There is an original Singer handbook in the Adler drawer along with other items, but I didn't look closely. Hopefully the handbook is for the Singer 45. Would you know the significance of the "A222" plate on the Singer?

Constabulary, I would appreciate any documentation that you have on either machine. Thank you and thank you for letting me know about your bobbin winder.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Evo160K