MonicaJacobson Report post Posted September 30, 2014 I'm about to order some tiger thread from Abbey England. I'm getting .6mm as well as .8mm in hopes that the .6mm will be small enough for wallets. I was going to get some smaller John James needles, but everywhere I've searched, they seem to be labeled differently. I honestly don't even know what size I am using. Does anybody know what size I should get for sewing .8mm thread and .6mm thread? Abbey England calls them: Number 1/0 Large Number 2/0 Extra Large Number 3, 2, 1, Medium Number 3,XX extra large Number 4, small Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hi Im Joe Report post Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Hmmm...I know Nigel refers to the needles he recommends as 002. http://www.fineleatherworking.com/leather-sewing-harness-needles Check that link it may help you figure some stuff out. Here's another: http://ludlowleather.com/products/john-james-harness-needles John James actual page: http://www.jjneedles.com/products/Saddlers-Harness-Needles-%252d-Bulk.html Edited September 30, 2014 by Hi Im Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MonicaJacobson Report post Posted September 30, 2014 Yeah, I tried looking at Ludlow, but there's just no.... correlation as far as I can see. Ha. I think it's Abbey England's language that I cannot understand. What does it even mean to say 3, 2, 1 Medium. What?! I think I'll just buy the needles from somewhere else. Do you mind if I ask what size thread and needles to you use for wallets? As far as I can tell, your spi, needle size, and thread size all look great. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hi Im Joe Report post Posted September 30, 2014 I think you want size 2 in the "3,2,1" option. You definitely don't want 2/0, 3/0 etc...as they all look enormous. For this wallet I used just over 6 stitches per inch and I used bonded nylon 207 machine sewing thread (T210). Size 207 thread is .508mm in diameter to give you a reference point. I hope that helps! Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MonicaJacobson Report post Posted September 30, 2014 Maybe they actually include all three sizes. They certainly don't allow you to choose only one of those options, nor does it explain. That's fine, it's not like it's terribly expensive. Anyway, I appreciate the help! The wallet looks great, and the spi looks great, which helps, as I'm about to buy a higher spi chisel or pricking iron, I haven't decided which. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hi Im Joe Report post Posted September 30, 2014 I use the chisels. I get better results with them. But that's just my .02 cents. Also, unless you are going to use very very thin leather I would stick to around 6-7 stitches per inch. I'm sure others may disagree but that's what I have found got me the best results. I had problems trying to stitch heavier leather at high sti. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MonicaJacobson Report post Posted September 30, 2014 They're diamond shaped, rather than slits, right? I guess I'm going to go with Dixon... I'm having a hard time justifying Blanchard at this time. When I tried 6 spi on a wallet, it was just too big. I probably won't do ultra thin leathers, but I was having trouble getting close enough to the edge with 6 spi. I'm thinking 8spi. I found a really good conversation thread searching for dixon irons on this forum (just now), and Nigel Armitage said he would go 7-8 (preferably 7, so I guess you're right on) for 3-4 oz. But since I also want to use it for very thin lining, I'm leaning towards 8. Also, this thread was informative: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=50133 Macca gave a good example of 6mm thread in 10spi holes. Anyway, thanks again - you actually helped me decide about several things, not just the needles. Oh, and on the fineleatherworking link you gave: "I recently asked the folks at John James about the difference between sizes 1-3. Turns out they're the same! Size 1, 2 and 3 are identical in length and diameter. Our needles are offered worldwide and different countries call this needle by either size 1 , 2 or 3 depending on the destination of the country. John James Rep. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hi Im Joe Report post Posted September 30, 2014 They're diamond shaped, rather than slits, right? I guess I'm going to go with Dixon... I'm having a hard time justifying Blanchard at this time. When I tried 6 spi on a wallet, it was just too big. I probably won't do ultra thin leathers, but I was having trouble getting close enough to the edge with 6 spi. I'm thinking 8spi. I found a really good conversation thread searching for dixon irons on this forum (just now), and Nigel Armitage said he would go 7-8 (preferably 7, so I guess you're right on) for 3-4 oz. But since I also want to use it for very thin lining, I'm leaning towards 8. Also, this thread was informative: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=50133 Macca gave a good example of 6mm thread in 10spi holes. Anyway, thanks again - you actually helped me decide about several things, not just the needles. Oh, and on the fineleatherworking link you gave: "I recently asked the folks at John James about the difference between sizes 1-3. Turns out they're the same! Size 1, 2 and 3 are identical in length and diameter. Our needles are offered worldwide and different countries call this needle by either size 1 , 2 or 3 depending on the destination of the country. John James Rep. Yeah I use the Japanese style ones that are meant to be punched all the way through the leather. If you go with Dixon I have heard a lot of people on this board complain that the slits are too big for really high sti unless you get the "slimline" version. If it was me and I was going to buy a pricking iron to mark the leather with and then actually open the hole with an awl I would save up for the vergez irons. There is a reason Hermes uses vergez (maybe because they are both french?) but seriously I think its because they are the best. Having said that I have never used a vergez or dixon iron so I am just giving my opinion based on what I've read and not what I've experienced. I do have a CS Osborne pricking iron at 8 sti but the slits it makes are too wide for the sized thread I want to use. I am debating on grinding it down. I would listen to Macca as he knows what he's talking about. That needle sizing thing is freakin hilarious. How completely confusing could they possibly make it! Good luck and I can't wait to see your wallets...I"m betting they will be just as awesome as your bags! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DavidL Report post Posted September 30, 2014 For how much usage the pricking iron gets its worth a few extra dollars for the vergez. The finish and balance of the tool is more comfortable and it might be all in my head but the vergez has a tapered slant and it makes the impressions deeper. The dixon regular's post is a square. The old dixons that are tapered are similar to the vergez from what I seen. Like joe said the cs osborne isn't a good iron because of its wide and thick teeth and the modern dixon's teeth are wide as well. You can custom order from fineleatherworking a 7 teeth iron at whatever SPI or TPI for less than the $220 irons thats on the website. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MonicaJacobson Report post Posted September 30, 2014 Sorry, one more question. What is the brand of Japanese chisel you have? I actually prefer to punch the holes all the way through the leather as well. It seems if you're going to buy a pricking iron/chisel, you might as well go all the way through, otherwise you might as well use a marking wheel, right? It works fine, even up to 9 oz leather, and I very much doubt I'd go thicker than that for anything. Ha, yeah, I saw the thread where you were offering to sell your Osborne... seriously considered PMing you to see if you still had it. But I think I need the #9, not #8. Thanks for the heads-up on the Dixon. I had run across people saying that, but had forgotten about it. That means, I suppose that if I buy Dixon I have to buy straight from them, not through Abbey. @David - I'll contact them at fineleatherworking and see what they say; from the website it looks like a lot of their tools are sold out, and I don't see a custom order option. But that would definitely be cool. Hey, I'd be happy with only 5-6 teeth. I'm not super picky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hi Im Joe Report post Posted September 30, 2014 I have the #9. They mark it as a number 9 but really its 8 sti. They mark it #9 because it has 9 teeth (at least I think that's why). If you are interested I would sell it to you. However, like I said...I think it could be ground down if you want to use fine thread. If you like the look of thicker thread it may be OK as is. The Japanese brand I have is Seiwa. They are made from tool steel and are very nice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MonicaJacobson Report post Posted September 30, 2014 I'll check with my machinist husband about the tooth grinding. I need a 2 prong as well regardless, so I might order straight from Dixon (especially if Blanchard doesn't get back to me). I'll PM you later about what I decide after I talk to him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hi Im Joe Report post Posted September 30, 2014 Sounds good! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DavidL Report post Posted September 30, 2014 Do keep in mind the sizing of every brand is different. I just measure my dixon and the 7 Stitches per inch is 7 stitches in an inch, exactly how it sounds. Vergez is Teeth per inch so a number 9 is 8 stitches per inch. All this time I thought my vergez was SPI.. My japanese pricking chisel when I bought it the measurement sometimes is measured from prong to prong or it measures the diagonal length. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MonicaJacobson Report post Posted September 30, 2014 Thanks David, I'll keep it in mind! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
