Barbour Thread Through A Machine ? Sources For It ?

[CustomDoug]

I'm wondering if anyone here has tried using Barbour thread through their industrial sewing machines? There is a Barbour unwaxed linen that I'd like to try but the spools look small (200m fr the ones I saw). Maybe there's one that's lightly waxed or lubricated, that I could try thru the machine? Does anyone know? Also... I have been able to come across one mention (and only one picture) of Barbour Bonded Nylon on industrial sized spools. Has anyone used that and know of a good source (looking for colors if possible). Thanks.

Doug C

[Wizcrafts]

I have have no success running 4 or 5 cord Irish linen thread through my CB4500. The mechanism is too brutal and breaks the thread, especially if I run it through Lax Wax (Campbell) or Ceroxylon (Puritan). It is possible that 6 cord left twist Barbour's Irish Linen will hold up better.

The wax is like rubber glue and fowls up the tensioners and needle.

I recommend getting a Union Lockstitch, or Campbell Randall needle and awl stitcher if you want to sew with Barbour's Irish Linen thread. They are designed to use that thread.

[CustomDoug]

Hi Wizcrafts, here's what Campbell Randell says regarding linen thread:

"Linen Thread is still a favorite for hand sewing, as well as machine sewing.

Our customers range from bookbinders, to shoe repair shops, to re-enactment costumers.

Flax Linen thread wears longer than cotton. For easy hand sewing, linen is the way to go!

If you are machine sewing with linen, we recommend our Campbell's Thread Lubricant for your wax pot."

So, machine sewing with it seems to be possible with the lubricant.. Here is their "thread lubricant" (I get nothing when searching 'Lax Wax' or the other one), so I'm not sure this is what you're using:

http://www.campbell-randall.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=thread%20lubricant&product_id=526

Also Abbeyengland.com says this about Barbour linen :

Coats / Barbour reverse twist linen thread is suitable for hand and machine sewing. Available on 250g cops only A 250g cops contains approximately 600m of thread.

So, same thing - they mention machine sewing too. Of course which machine specifically is not mentioned.

Doug C

[Constabulary]

I`m currently using some old stock 25/3 linen thread from the 1940´s in my Singer 111G156 (top + Bottom) and it works great but I´m sewing webbing and not leather. But when I´m going to fast the top thread brakes. Anyway - works good at slow speed! But I thinks this brand is no longer available.

[CustomDoug]

Hey Constbulary, that's un-waxed thread right?

If I'm not mistaken 3 cord is usually around .50mm which generally will equate to about a #207 (Tex 210) thread of say bonded nylon.. So assuming the machine will normally handle #207, and if I go slow and use a thread lubricant.. I have to think that UN-waxed linen might have a chance - or is it just too weak for the machine action? What is it about the waxed version that would keep this from working? Is it just not strong enough to handle the action of the machine? I think I might be willing to except the extra machine clean up and maintenance if I could use this stuff. I can see how a needle eye could easily become clogged though - are there no special needles for this thread available?

Doug C

[Wizcrafts]

Doug;

3 cord is more like #138 bonded in diameter. I wouldn't try using anything less than 5 cord, left twist, Barbour's in any closed eye machine. That will require a #24 or #25 needle. Back off the top and bottom tensions for the softest tug on the upstroke. Puritan's Ceroxylon might be a better wax in this instance. It dries clear and flakes off parts, whereas Lax Wax is milky and a little stickier.

Do not mistake liquid silicon thread lube for thread wax. They are different altogether.

Wetting the thread make it break more easily until it dries. Running it dry defeats the purpose of using linen thread in the first place.

Real waxed linen or nylon thread will gum up the works on your machine. If the machine is not designed to operate with wax on the take-up and feed components, it will be totally gummed up, or maybe even damaged.

Get a needle and awl machine for sewing linen thread.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Wizcrafts

[CustomDoug]

A needle and awl machine is going to be too big for what I'm wanting to use the Linen thread for (watch bands, small straps, etc.). I plan to hand sew these items (and I have the thread for that figured out) but I'd like to also offer a less expensive alternative with the machine sewing. I know other threads can be used but I was hoping linen wouldn't be out of the question. Not the end of the world if it is though.

I wasn't mistaken liquid silicone for the actual thread wax - I really don't know the difference (obviously) but I posted what was recommended by Campbell-Randle for machine sewing with linen thread... perhaps that's why you are having problems with clogging etc, you're using wax instead of lubricant. Just a thought.

What about a 'glaced' or glazed cotton or linen thread.. for small leather goods? These are commonly used (at least the cotton) in sewing machines. Do you see similar problems or some less obvious ones, as the ones you've already pointed out?

Doug C

[Constabulary]

Yes, mine is unwaxed and it is about the same thicknesses as 138.

[Darren Brosowski]

Have you considered core spun PolyCotton or High Tenacity Polyester (AMANN Serafil)?

[Galloways]

Yes you can use linen in machines for all stitching applications it's the premium thread for leather use how ever linen has no elasticity or plasticity, it will not give, nylon on the other hand is at the other extreme high elasticity and plasticity which makes it virtually idiot proof it's also the lowest quality thread. Because of its complete lack of forgiveness accurate machine setting essential and quality components especially in the thread path also recommend and you don't need as much tension with linen as it holds a much tighter stitch than poly threads. Needle and awl machines are only of benefit on very hard leather otherwise Pearson's are much better and these useless for your application, thread treatment isn't needed for your application either, if you do use them regular cleaning is a must I do my machines once a week everywhere the treated thread runs must be cleaned the longer you leave it the harder it is to remove and a wax pot needs a good thread wiper and shuttle bobbins must be used the day they are wound. Barbour's and Somac I use both and are excellent machine thread polished linen can be problematic in some machines so best stick to satin finish, I usually buy my thread from Abbey Saddlery, you could get in touch Coats or Somac and ask for local suppliers, http://www.somac.co.uk/linen_thread.html http://www.coatsindustrial.com/en/products-applications/industrial-threads/barbours-linen

Here's a video of Hermes watch bands, this process is what's called hand stitched ends and bends on a regular medium weight closed eye sewing machine (Pfaff 335)with dry Barbour's linen thread looks like 25/3 this outlasts hand stitch polyester seams by decades even in horse harness.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dw43Isosh_s

If you can't run linen through a machine the machine isn't set correctly or there's something wrong with the machine it just requires a little know how and effort, also wetting linen makes it stronger.

[CustomDoug]

Have you considered core spun PolyCotton or High Tenacity Polyester (AMANN Serafil)?

Yes.. I have a poly/cotton blend (I even started a forum thread on the subject a few weeks back). I like it a lot unfortunately it's only available in one size and very limited color options (thru the threadexchange.com ). I've asked if they can get more options - no. As for Serafil, yes been at the top of my list for the last couple of days. Has lots of color options. Where can you get it in the US though?

Doug C

[CustomDoug]

Yes you can use linen in machines for all stitching applications it's the premium thread for leather use .... thread treatment isn't needed for your application either, .... Barbour's and Somac I use both and are excellent machine thread polished linen can be problematic in some machines so best stick to satin finish, ....

Here's a video of Hermes watch bands, this process is what's called hand stitched ends and bends on a regular medium weight closed eye sewing machine (Pfaff 335)with dry Barbour's linen thread looks like 25/3 this outlasts hand stitch polyester seams by decades even in horse harness.

If you can't run linen through a machine the machine isn't set correctly or there's something wrong with the machine it just requires a little know how and effort, also wetting linen makes it stronger.

Thanks for the confirmation Galloways on running linen thru the machine...

That Hermes video that you linked to is the very reason I posted this thread in the first place. I paused the video @ 3:06 and you can see that it is indeed Barbour thread. However, I'd never heard of anyone running linen thru a machine. Since then I have looked for Barbour linen thread on these big Grey color industrial spools with red Barbour text (like in the video).. and can not locate it. I researched it quite a bit. I was only able to locate the unwaxed smaller non-spool type offerings in colors. On the other hand, I have come to the conclusion that the thread in the video is actually Coats/Barbour "Terko Satin" - I've found it (on the net) on those very same spools (though not always) and the Coats website recommends it for Horse harness work. It is a cotton wrapped polyester core thread. It's got a descent color range but I need to find a good consistent source. Any ideas?

Doug C

Edited October 13, 2014 by CustomDoug

[Wizcrafts]

Don't forget to back off the tensions on the top, check spring and bobbin. Then add tension back on top or bottom as needed. Use left twist only.

As I mentioned before, Puritan sells a clear liquid wax, called Ceroxylon. Campbell-Randall makes Lax Wax, which is a milky liquid. Both are meant for use in wax pots on machines sewing with Barbour's linen thread.