Setting Rivets

[benlilly1]

Anyone have a fool proof way of setting rivets without wasting the whole bag due to bending or setting crooked?? The setter just isn't at all working well...

[TomG]

What rivets?

What setter?

What leather thickness?

I usually struggle with Glove snaps, line 20 and 24 if the leather is not the right thickness. The posts have to be a certain length above the leather or they either will not roll (too short) or they will bend or shift (too long), which it sounds like you are getting.

I think the proper length is 1/16" above the leather, if memory serves me. Use a file to cut it down if it's too long and try it.

Tandy has a couple of good videos on setting various rivets. Note how he rolls the tool on some of them as he hits it.

[chiefjason]

Sounds like the post is too long. You can cut it off if you have too. But better to get the right size to begin with. Also, try taking a couple lighter hits to the setter to get things started then increase the force.

[benlilly1]

These rivets are the ones sent in a cheapo key fob kit. Some set just right but some don't. I use the hand setter with the dome end that's required for the rivets. Are there better rivets out there to buy?

[Tree Reaper]

I buy rivets from Ohio Travel.

[TheCyberwolfe]

The old coot that used to run the Oregon Leather Store in Portland was full of advice when I went buying my first tools, and he said "Ditch the rivet tool and just hammer the darn thing flat. Looks just as good on those silly Rapid Rivets and it's a heckuva lot easier.". I've been using that method ever since. I occasionally get one crooked, but mostly it works. I keep a light hand for the first hit, and then a firmer tap on the second to make sure it set. Don't smack it too hard, though, or you'll pound it TOO flat.

the comments above about making sure you have the correct length are spot-on though. The Rapid Rivets will kinda 'snap' together before you set them. If it won't stay connected once you let go, the stem is too short. If you can see lots of air gap between the cap and the leather, the stem is too long.

If you're out of the right length and the one you have is a tad short, one solid tap on the hole with a ball peen hammer will compress the leather long enough for you to set the rivet and it won't look too bad.

[Chief31794]

Many years ago I bought the Tandy setter with all the dies for snaps, rivets, etc. It has never failed to set anything perfectly in over 5 years, maybe longer. They are costly, but I was occasionally ruining projects, and that is more costly than the tool.

Chief

[Tree Reaper]

I bought one of those as well from Tandy ,it's well made but I wouldn't buy the same one again because you can't get all the dies you need.

[RiverCity]

First as others have mentioned, make sure the post is the correct length to begin with. Typically youll see rivets in 2mm increments. I find the 9mm is right for two layers of 8-9, even 9-10 but thats pushing it. 7mm for two layers of 6-7, 5mm for two layers of 4-5 etc. Also it should be noted that the holes for the rivets be tight, the rivets should "pop" into the leather and be tight enough to hold themselves in there.

The rivet on the right is about how much exposed post you should be seeing.

All setters are not created equal either, the Tandy setter is ok at best, but its not domed good enough IMO. I use a setter from a pack of various setters available from Springfield Leather for under 10 bucks, and I modified it and polished it to make it better.

The Springfield tool is longer and a larger diameter. Makes it easier to handle and use. I put mine in a drill press and sanded/shaped the dome to make it even bigger and smoother, the polished it with Flitz.

A was just hammered flat, but I find the look bad, and if it fails the top part of the cap typically falls off.

B was set with Tandys tool, and while it does an ok job, if you are off centered at all the cap will be dented, and the post can bend.

C was set with the modified tool, it sets deep, but does not bend the post. It also leaves a nicer dome to the rivet.

I set a lot of these rivets. Every case I make has just shy of 100 each, and I have torture tested them. If they are set correctly, the leather will tear out or the rivet will literally tear around the base of it before it seperates.

Hope this helps!

Chuck

[billybopp]

If you like the idea of a bench setter, but not Tandy's price ... Folks seem to have good luck with this less expensive alternative:

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=51602&hl=%2Bgoldstar+%2Brivet#entry329128

I bought a Tandy before I saw the above, so spent more than I might have ... And wouldn't set rivets any other way unless I absolutely had to.

Hope that helps

Bill

[silverwingit]

billybop and all, I looked into that Goldstartool press, but ended up opting for the Tandy. The reason was that the Goldstartool press dies are metric. I have hundreds of Ohio Travel Bag snaps, which are SAE.

The vendor of one of these Chinese presses I was working with (many vendors sell the identical press) actually went to a local Tandy store, bought their SAE snaps and found that his press was incompatible with the SAE snaps. They distorted and didn't close correctly. I was duly impressed and thankful for this vendor's honesty and extra effort.

So, just know that if you do decide to go with a Goldstar or similar Chinese press, you must be prepared to purchase all your snaps from them henceforth. I was not willing to entertain the idea of scuttling my countless OHTB snaps or to restrict my future buying options to a Chinese company.

BTW, Arthur Porter has an excellent Youtube video comparing the two presses and confirming my findings regarding the incompatibility issue.

Michelle

Edited October 18, 2014 by silverwingit

[benlilly1]

Wow, great snippets of information to chew on...thanks everyone for the input!

[KristineS]

I'm fairly new to leather working but have a mentor that shares his knowledge with me. When I asked about setting rivets he said his method was he bought an arbor press. I found one at Harbor Freight, I didn't want to spend a lot in case it didn't work for me. It works great! This way I can make sure all my rivets stay straight as I lower the ram, instead of taking a chance and hitting it straight, which I can't seem to do! I do use the domed setter as well. I just finished a tote and used the press for the rivets and the bag feet. My friend examined my tote and said I did great job. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

Edited November 9, 2014 by KristineS

[silverwingit]

I have an arbor press as well. I set it up for my hand hole punches and rivet and snap setters. It was a marked improvement over setting by hand but using it was so clumsy that I gave up and now use it mostly with my makers mark. My arbor press is bolted at the end of my workbench so I have to get up, move my work and parts to its location, use it and then return with my work to my normal seat to resume work on the piece. Just too much hassle with all the snaps and rivets I set. So I got pretty durned good at hand setting.

Still, I enjoyed the accuracy and confidence with using the arbor press so I bought the Tandy hand press. This is different because it doesn't have to be bolted down like an arbor press due to the geometry of its design. I can set it aside until its needed, then I slide it to my spot on the bench and bam! The only thing is that I do have to stand up to use the Tandy press. I'm not strong enough to do it sitting down.

Quite honestly, I have no trouble any more with setting snaps by hand. It's those pesky rivets that can still give me problems when I use a hand setter. Often the length of the post isn't quite right for a give work piece, the rivet is just a tad too short or a tad too long. It's so much hassle to drop everything and cut one short, and when you do they never seem to work quite right. That hand press rarely messes up a rivet even if it is way longer than the leather thickness might indicate. And with its added leverage I can set a snap with a post that is so short that I wouldn't attempt to set it by hand.

That's my own journey with snaps, rivets and presses. If I were to do it all again, I'd just bite the bullet and go straight for the hand press.

Michelle

Edited November 9, 2014 by silverwingit

[johnv474]

It is often overlooked but important to tell newbies (maybe no one here) that to set a rivet you want metal-to-metal contact. Don't try to set rivets on the kitchen table or backed by a piece of wood. Using a plain faced hammer (and another hammer laid on it's side if you don't have an anvil), you can set double-cap and quick-rivets consistently well with little practice. The steam should reach through all the leather and just barely poke our, around 1/16". If it sticks out much more then you will have bent/crooked rivets. Also if the hole is too big, they can bend to the side too easily. The hole should fit snugly or, at least, not be way larger than the stem.

It is often overlooked but important to tell newbies (maybe no one here) that to set a rivet you want metal-to-metal contact. Don't try to set rivets on the kitchen table or backed by a piece of wood. Using a plain faced hammer (and another hammer laid on it's side if you don't have an anvil), you can set double-cap and quick-rivets consistently well with little practice. The steam should reach through all the leather and just barely poke our, around 1/16". If it sticks out much more then you will have bent/crooked rivets. Also if the hole is too big, they can bend to the side too easily. The hole should fit snugly or, at least, not be way larger than the stem.

[benlilly1]

Thanks for all the help... Just what I needed to see RiverCity. Nice explanation and photos. Come to find out the rivets sent with the fob kit were too long for the thickness of leather.