What Machine Recomended For Holsters And Belts?

[cleanview]

I ask here because machines can be for many levels of leather work.

I have read and read and watched videos and am just learning to the point of not being able to decide.

I am planning on what I want to do in five years from now, which is not full time but a steady suplimental income. By then it will require a machine so I am looking at getting one in the near future. I dont want one that will barely do the job and almost settled on the cowboy 4500 but cant help but wonder if one of the lesser models will do the job as well.

What do you use....recommend.....or wish you had bought and finally upgraded later.

Would really appreciate the input you could provide.

[Itch]

For holsters and belt,s we use an Artisan 3000 and a Sewpro which are both 441 clones... They both get used a lot and have worked well for us.

[Dwight]

I use a Tippmann Boss, . . .

May God bless,

Dwight

[cleanview]

the only machine sold locally is sewpro and i cant find any info on it. 3000.00

dwight.. I have considered the boss. Do you find it limited at all or ever get tired of pulling the lever?

[Dwight]

Well, . . . it definitely does have a learning curve, . . . but not insurmountable.

I bought it because I liked the "non power" feature, . . . not needing electric. I had planned on maybe hitting some horse shows or county fairs, . . . have not gotten there yet.

Some restrictions: the needle to right side throat is fairly small, . . . I sometimes have to seriously plan out my stitching route.

The back side of the stitches never seems to come out as pretty as the front, . . . which can be a liability in some circles.

There are times when a couple more hands would seriously help, . . . one is always occupied with the lever, . . . leaving only one to hold the thread at start, . . . and move the item as needed.

BUT, . . . it has never balked at any sewing job I've thrown its way, . . . belts and holsters to it are like unleaded gas to a Ford, . . . just hums along.

I also do my chap tops on it, . . . and that is a challenge, . . . but it is doable.

One of the best things for me, . . . I'm 2 hours from the factory, . . . and Ben has fixed it both times I've taken it there, . . . all he needs from me is a day's notice. I did actually call him one time, . . . said I needed it today if it was at all possible, . . . he told me to get started, . . . his desk would be cleared by the time I got there, . . . and he is a man of his word. A sleeve had come loose, . . . blew the timing all to smithereens, . . . he was seriously perplexed until he noticed it, . . . but when he saw it, . . . he knew right away what to do, . . . had it fixed in a NY minute.

For me, . . . shipping it up & back or driving is about the same $$$, . . . plus I enjoy the ride, . . . and I get the problem fixed that day, . . . shipping takes me down for 5 days.

Holsters usually sew up in about 5 minutes or so, . . . I did a belt yesterday for a fellow with a 41 inch waist, . . . took something in the neighborhood of 15 minutes, . . . not hurrying, . . . making sure the stitching is straight.

I'm very much pleased with mine, . . .

May God bless,

Dwight

[billybopp]

Attach a quarter slot, some spinning wheels and sound effects to that Boss, and it won't take long for somebody to come along 'n start pulling that handle for you, and paying for the privilege. Or at least that's how it seems to work every time I take the train over to Atlantic City. Heck, if you offer a cheap buffet you could staff an entire factory.

Bill

[BHPshooter]

I got a Cowboy CB3200 this summer, and it has increased my productivity by a lot. It has been more than adequate for the things I do (holsters and mag pouches, going to do belts soon).

I had absolutely no sewing machine experience prior to this, and it was difficult (and incredibly frustrating) for me to get everything adjusted. I seriously considered just going back to Stohlman-style hand stitching a time or two. Once I figured out some things -- like proper needle size, and the fact that white thread and black thread need different tension settings -- it has been a huge help to me.

It is a pretty big purchase, though, so I completely understand why it's hard to decide.

[cleanview]

Thank you and may I saw dwight....that you put so much time and effort into the details of so many your posts and I hope you know that I for one very much appreciate it.

[Eaglestroker]

I'll play devil's advocate to Dwight, but it is only based off of my experience.

When I first started leather working my grandfather loaned me his cast iron Boss. The machine runs well but requires constant attention to tension settings, and the softest breaking of wind would put mine in a world of hurt, heaven forbid you sneezed.

I ran that machine for 2 years and got to the point where it took no time to keep it running efficiently. My two main griefs with the Boss were how the feed dogs marked the back side of your project, and tension maintenance. This period for me was priceless as it taught me how to run a machine without having a powered deal to add another variable.

Fast forward to me buying a Cobra Class 4. I get cleaner stitching front and back, more production in the same amount of time, less maintenance, a wider throat for long holsters that require that feature, but the biggest incentive for me is the ability for both hands to be on the project. The only time my tension settings need to be adjusted is when there is a substantial change in thickness of leather and even then it is minimal tweaking.

At first the power intimidated me but that proved to be unnecessary. Even ammo loops were quick/easy to sew - belt sewing times were cut in half, holsters by a third, and ammo loops also in half.

Everyone is different and that is a key factor. The experience with the Tippmann allowed me to appreciate my Cobra that much more, and also gave me a great understanding of how a machine generally works. I wouldn't have skipped this step as the Boss didn't cost me anything other than maintenance. Buying a new machine something small than the Class 4 or equivalent wouldn't be on my radar.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Eaglestroker

[cleanview]

Thanks eaglestroker.

I know I would be upset if I bought a cb4500 and did not have the business to substantiate it, just as well as having a need for more productivity and knowing that more machine would have been better.

I am probably premature in my desire for a machine, I really am only getting started and am not in "need" of one as of yet. I think I will probably get a nicer unit than needed. My concerns are wondering if a Cb 2500 would do what i needed or the 3500 or the 4500. I really dont mind getting the 4500 but dont want to throw it more money at it than needed.

[SteelcityK9Cop]

If you are going "all in" then spend the money and get the 4500. You may not need "all of it" at first but you will be happy you did down the line and will kick yourself needing a new / different machine later. Holsters / Belts you will be good with anything that will sew 1/2" (most holsters and belts are a wee bigger than 1/4") and can work 277 sized thread. There are a bunch of machines that will do this. One day however, you may decide that you want to sew something close to an inch in thickness and will be crying that you didn't get the 4500!

Want to guess what I did??? lol

[Pounder]

Cleanview

You may want to reconsider your decision to hold off on a machine until productivity requires. There is a learning curve of just knowing how to thread and operate the machine correctly. Later comes getting the "feel" of the machine for example how and what does it do while sewing a corner. Practice is the key and the sooner you get one the sooner you can practice. Small gifts for family and friends is a great training tool with benefits and the receivers are more willing to overlook small mistakes. Just my two cents. Good luck.

[msdeluca]

Love my CB3200. I've been successful using down to 92 thread in two layers of sunbrella and up to 277 thread in 9/16" of Herman Oak. Haven't adjusted the bobbin case tension once, just the presser foot pressure and thread tension. It can be dialed in pretty quick. With its standard servo motor, I can sew one stitch at a time as slow and controllable as I'd ever need and t will also sew right down a belt plenty fast enough for leather.

Ryan, at Neel's Saddlery, set it up for me and I couldn't be happier with his communication and customer service. I don't think the guy ever sleeps.

I bought a dedicated bobbin winder which I modified and am currently working on switching the gas and presser foot pedals so the gas is on the right and the presser foot lift on the left (why retrain 45 years of muscle memory) . I'll be doing a blog post on that at some point... I've got a design going that incorporates a mini block and tackle which will make the presser foot lift effortless.... if it works.

[lws380]

Another vote for a Cobra 4. I have two of them and a Cobra 18 for thinner stuff. I make holsters and belts and the Cobra 4 handles both easily.

I know another local leather worker that bought a different brand. He could not get it to sew properly and the support he was getting from the seller could not solve his problems. He ultimately called Steve at Cobra, and with his help, got the machine to sew correctly. In addition to a good machine, Leather Machine Company will help you when you need it. I suggest you factor service and support into you decision process as well.

[cleanview]

Thank you all for the posts and tips therein.

It looks like the money is coming together and I believe the cb3200 is what I want to settle on. I think it will do everything I want and then some.

In the grand scheme of things it is not essential at this time but as some have mentioned, the opportunity to learn the machine will be nice and I would rather have it down ahead of time. I am one of those guys that plans ahead (to a fault some times) but I would rather be over prepared. Plus winter time is my lax time as far as work load goes as well.

[Blackey Cole]

I'm much in the same boat as the op. I'm looking for something to stitch my leather projects together since the hands have arthritis and are not able to stich like I could when I leaned leather work. When I retired from the usaf in O2 I quickly needed a hobby at the time doi pulled out what leather tools that I had still and bought way to many new tools some leather and more hardware. I made belts for me and my family plus some other gifts that first year, around the end of the year I got interested in sass and cowboy action shooting. I made my first belt and two holsters for it. It was a single buscadero belt I put a straight hang holster in the loop and made a cross draw holster that matched on the belt it had close to thirty loops for 44/45 s. It was stolen in 09 when my RV blew a tire and destroyed the RV thing went all over the road I grab the five most important things to me my meds, my guns, my dog, my cat but he got loose and wasn't seen again, and my laptop and camera. Everything else was perty much picked up by a front end loader and dumped on the bed of the trailer or back of the truck. They took the top turn it upside down and put stuff in it. Somehow my clothes were able to be barbed also, I made two trips iirc to the storage faciltaly to gather stuff I found most things and each time filled the vehicle and left the rest. Between me and the insurance rep there was angreement made to have the rest picked up and cleaned and boxed and shipped to me but that fell through when the storage fees were looked at and the insurance co could not get the people out in time to make it cost effective. So I was given cart blanch on my claim. That was nice but somanythings were not relieved until after the end date. You go to get something and realize it was in the Wreck. Then months later when I got home I find stuff that I thought were oin the RV and stuff I thought was on the RV that was in fact at home. Enough of that sorry. I've been looking at the boss I understan that the cast bosses are the one to get. I make cowboy and military gear usually. I'm never used a me chiral screwing machine because I'm not fond of the stick they use. With my hand stitching it will not unravel but the one stitch but with the machine stich the whole thing can be unraveled.

I guanteed my stitching when done by hand but I can't do that for machine stitching I wouldn't use the sewing awl because of the same reason.

I need something small easy to store and works or easy to understand. Being a full time RV I got to limit what I can carry with me. I do have a shop that once cleaned out and organized works for my shop for reloading and storage of other items. My computer is setup in the main room the network on the dresser in the bedroom. Storage of my photo gear in pelica hard cases in the closet, etc. as you can see space can be limited. I would like a pony to mount it to and use the other end for a stitching pony. I have one folging table in the shop it nreed to be swaped out with a good workbench or a tool box with many drawers that fits the area. Mt presses at least the Dillion 550 and RCBS ruck Chucker on one of the frankfort arsenal reloading station with a ton of ankle weibthgs wrapped around it. The rest get clamped to a stool in the kitchen.

Would a good used boss be my best way to got as I've got several projects from cowboy gun rigs with SG belt to saddlebags made to spec for the cavlery designs. Then there several small items made by the bakers dozen for use on each stage we shoot plus one for a spare OTr reshoot. Eventually I would love to have a full soldiers kit everything that he would have to go on patrol. Saddle and everything that attaches to it. Plus the items the solider wears. I have most of the later then go to the next version and built it. Every regulation change from the post civil war to the turn of the century. Not to mention an odd job here and there's. I'm not wanting a full time or even part time job. Maybe one or two small medium jobs a month max.

Should I get the boss or something else power isn't a factor since I have a generator.

[Modad2010]

I got a used Artisan Toro 3000 from Cobra Steve for a very reasonable price. Has worked out great for me doing concealment holsters and double thick belts. His mechanic goes through the machine to make sure it's working right and sets it up for your desired thickness and thread size. Great thing to start on and then keep around if you upgrade to a bigger machine later. Steve's customer service is fantastic too.

[dirtclod]

I would get a machine that will sew 3/4 inch because your going to be over the 3/8 inch limit pretty quick if you put a welt in your holster.

[cleanview]

It goes 1/2 inch. Might come a time i would do something that thick ....maybey a cowboy holster?????? I think it could be under that or just stitch the rare bird. And the 3200 aint going to break the bank

[cleanview]

Well ....ordered the 3200 yesterday from Bob at toledo...........I have never ordered a palatalized shipment before so no clue what to expect. He told me there were several machines ahead of me and yes the totally set everything up check tighten and oil the unit and test and set up each machine. Since I dont have a clue what I am doing and sense that there is a time of frustration coming to me as I learn this, it seems priceless to have the machine already set up. anyhow 7-10 days they will ship and 3-5 in shipping (thats amazing to me)

Now I dont want to build anything past the sewing stage

[Double Daddy]

Cleanview - I have the CB3200...love it! I was going to get the 4500 but wasn't sure about investing that much $$$. After a discussion with Cowboy Bob regarding what I anticipated using a machine for, he recommended the then-new CB3200. I am very pleased with it. It came set up/adjusted and ready to use. It has a learning curve...practice, practice, practice...also, read, read, read the advice that you find within this forum...its been a big help to me! I believe you'll be pleased with your purchase. Good luck!

[GrampaJoel]

Many of the machined today are clone machines. They tend to work very similar in fashion. Most do what they are designed to do pretty well.

That said, I have three Cobra machines.

The reason?

Steve and his customer service.

When someone needs help, If they can't help you, you may be un-helpable.

Joel.

[cleanview]

I have mixed feeling of anticipation.........cant wait to get it But no I have some frustration that will be present for a time.......all said cant wait to geti

Working on a couple of things that will probable be stitched on the machine once I play with it some

[harnessman]

Ooops! Double post.

Edited October 24, 2014 by harnessman

[harnessman]

I have been doing leather work for pretty near 50 years now, off and on, and have always hand stitched. About 6 years ago I was doing a lot of harness work and believe me stitching a pair of

six foot long traces with two, or more, rows of stitches, that's over 50 FEET of stitching, will wear out your little fingers in a big hurry. After much discussion with she who must be obeyed (swmbo) I scraped up enough money to buy a 441 clone. Best thing I have ever done and it turned my hobby into it part time money maker because of the increased productivity. Huge learning curve to getting that first machine running correctly and consistently but lordy it was fast!

I ran with that machine for about 3 years until I got tired changing over needles, thread, tension, etc between jobs and I broke down and bought a second machine, a pretty new cowboy 3500. It was a great machine and, despite the shorter throat, it did everything I asked of it smoothly and easily. I had that machine for about a year when one of the big Adler harness stitchers became available locally and I was able to pick it up for about half of retail, about the price of a new Cowboy (whew, SWMBO darn near scalped me for that one). For those who do not know the Adler is like a 4500 Juki clone but on steroids! It is by far The Best heavy duty free arm stitcher on the market.That big Adler was a real eye opener. The smoothness of German engineering and machining was incredible! Stitch regulation was perfect! To make a long story a bit shorter I sold the Cowboy to a young man I was mentoring and kept the Adler as my main go to stitcher. The 441 clones will do the job but the Adler does it just that much better!

So, any machine, even (shudder), a manual Boss, will be faster than hand stitching but if you have the need and have the $$$ go with a Adler, you will never be sorry!

JMHO, your millage may vary.

Edited October 24, 2014 by harnessman