Is My Singer Really A Consew?

[ramrod]

the reason for the question is as follows:

so, i recently took my 211g155 out of storage and plan on getting it up and running. i moved in the last year and haven't had a place of my own, so i couldn't really do much in the way of leatherwork. anyway, i began practicing on it and found that the current needle that is in the machine (installed by the previous owner oof a canvas shop) seems to be way too big for leather. i'm using #69 top and bottom thread and it is lost in the hole left by the needle. so i looked at the owner's manual that came with it. it is actually a manual for a consew 225. but the previous owner made a few scribbles indicating that it's a useable manual for this singer.

getting to the point: i wanted to see what is the smallest needle i can use with this machine. can i go by the recommendations in the consew manual for needle and thread sizing?

oh - the current needle has no markings on it, so i don't know what size it is. but i do have a pack of rhein nadel needles that have "rhein 130" printed on them. the pack that they are in have 130 21 printed on it along with a ton of needle system sizes.

help!

[Constabulary]

the Consew 225 is a clone of the Singer 111w and the 111w is the forerunner of the Singer 211. So the main information should be the same in your manual. But I will upload a Singer 211 manual for you:

221G155_211G156.pdf

Edited October 23, 2014 by Constabulary

[Constabulary]

BTW - the 130 (metric size) needle should not bee to thick for leather. It´s rather a too thin thread you are using the 130 (21) needle is for 92 or 138 thread. Are you using leather point needles or round tip? The round tip are meant for clothing and and not for leather.

This has been linked a couple of times already but this chart from Toledo Sewing is quite helpful to figure the needle / thread combination:

http://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html

Print it out and so you always have it at hand

[Wizcrafts]

Your machine takes system 135x16 leather point needles and 135x17 round point for cloth. They are sold everywhere industrial sewing machines are sold. The typical walking foot machine is best limited to using #69, 92, and 138 bonded nylon or bonded polyester thread. This corresponds to needle sizes 16/18, 19/20 and 22/23 (tight/standard holes). You can use the smaller of the two sizes when sewing soft leather and the larger for denser leather. Smaller holes make tighter lockstitch "knots" and vise-verse.

[ramrod]

constabulary - thank you for the links. i really appreciate the reply.

it looks like the existing needle is for leather. it is definitely not a round point.

the reason that i wanted to know what would be the smallest needle is that i'm used to sewing with .6mm tiger thread at 10 spi - with a john james 4 needle. that makes this singer needle look like a pencil lead.

i will look at the toledo info that you linked to.

wiz - excellent info. thank you. as a side point, i tried the needles that i described above (rhein nadel 130's) and they don't work. it seems they are too short. does this make sense? is it because i take a 135 and these are 130's? is that how this needle "system" works?

Edited October 23, 2014 by ramrod

[Wizcrafts]

I consulted the thread/needle chart on the Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines website and found the .6mm Tiger thread is just slightly larger than the diameter of #277 thread. Technically speaking, you could use a #25 leather point needle to sew with #277 thread on top and #207 in the bobbin. But, your hook and latch opener may not allow #277 thread to go around the shuttle without binding, unless you apply some creative filing and polishing to the parts. The hook is not designed with that size of thread in mind. It will be a crap shoot if you can get #277 to sew on your machine. The standard limit is #138, top and bottom.

Consulting the chart, I see that #138 thread is .414mm in diameter. This is the safest large thread for your machine, unless you modify the hook. You would want to sew it using either a #22 or #23 leather point needle. The maximum thickness it will sew properly is just under 10mm. It depends on thow your presser feet are adjusted. If the feet are at their maximum working height, you will sew up to 3/8" (10mm). Otherwise, you may be limited to 5/16".

[ramrod]

i will be well within the bounds of max presser foot lift. i intend to do wallets, credit card cases and assorted small leather goods. (of coures, i'm sure everyone says that they'll only sew thinner items). but it is nice to know that i can at least get up to #138 thread. 277 if i mess with it. and i'm not in the messing mood lately.

i also have assorted feet for this machine. and one of the has had some grinding work done to it. i just don't know what they are used for. i'd guess they are for welts.

the foot that the needle passes through - is that called a presser foot also? or is it just the "dual" foot that goes on each side of it?

that center foot that the needle passes through has a half circle shape to it when you look at it from straight on. is this a welt foot?

[Wizcrafts]

You are describing a welting or piping foot set.

The outside foot is the presser foot and the inside foot is the alternating or vibrating foot.

[ramrod]

thank you, guys. a veritable wealth of knowledge. you both have been a real help.

[Uwe]

Please start a new discussion topic for new questions, rather than piggy-backing them onto other (old) posts with a totally different topic. It helps keep discussions relevant, focussed and organized.

Give it a title like "Serrated vs. smooth feed dogs on walking foot machines", in this case.

[Darren Brosowski]

The Consew is not a clone of the Singer.

When Singer started closing factories they contracted out manufacturing of many machines to Seiko.

Eventually Singer went belly up and kept making the machines under their own brand name. Consew - CONsolidated SEWing - is a brand name created for Seiko machines for the US and other Western markets.