30's saddle - rawhide saddle tree

[pella]

Hello,

a friend bring me a Houston Texas mark 1930's maybe 40's saddle(?), for me it is an antique to display...but she buy it to ride it. I tell her i will need to open it to be sure it is safe for her...considering the age of the saddle.

Surprise, the rawhide on one bar is craked and eaten around steel rivets. Wood is not craked under the rawhide, for what i can see. I would be happy to tell her she can use the saddle :-/ its for trail. Anything to do to add strenght without removing the tree from the seat? Is this particular place on the bar critical (take a lot of pressure)? The dark place under the bars are probably oil, the saddle was over-oiled

thanks for your help

.

[bruce johnson]

Pella,

That is a pretty cute little 8 button saddle. Who made it?

If the tree feels solid when you push on it form the different directions, you are probably alright. Not sure what others see, but I find those older trees generally to be more solid with the rawhide compromised or worn than the ones that came along later. I wouldn't trust it to pull a truck, but if it fits the horse decently should be a down the road kind of saddle.

I worry about the riggings and leathers more than anything on therse oldies. Some of them have screws that have worked around enough and the wood has shrunk away from them. Make sure they aren't loose and the cut tacks aren't all backed out. Check the leathers for strength, if they look original, I'd replace them just because. Laced leathers or Al-Ray buckles?

[pella]

hi bruce and thanks for helping me

i'll post a picture of the maker mark for reference. It is stamped

"Texas farm supply co"

The horseman line

Houston , texas

Fitted with original "laced" stirrups leathers.

I also like the sea shell pattern, even if it is a little naive.

I dont trust much the rigging as it is punched and laced just over the steel rigging dee. The leather could probably brake anytime, 80 year old dry leather, and the owner just put a pint of oil on the saddle, thats a bad combination. I saddle soap it to try remove as much and soften the leather.

I will probably change it for new leather. The nails are rusty, and the saddle was repaired by a poor leatherworker :-( he put a new "real wool on synthetic backing" over the old sheepskin and without removing the skirts!!! He even manage to make splits in the synthetic wool...

Tree feel solid.

Question: on the saddle, the horn is covered on a certain way, as seen on picture below, and there is a X screw (dont know the name in english) so thats not original, do you think there was a screw there? Or someone put it to hold the leather? It look ugly. I want to put it like original, i want to remove the cheap star conchos, i think that was a later addition. Someone know when these commons concho came to life?

[Hennessy]

Hello,

a friend bring me a Houston Texas mark 1930's maybe 40's saddle(?), for me it is an antique to display...but she buy it to ride it. I tell her i will need to open it to be sure it is safe for her...considering the age of the saddle.

Surprise, the rawhide on one bar is craked and eaten around steel rivets. Wood is not craked under the rawhide, for what i can see. I would be happy to tell her she can use the saddle :-/ its for trail. Anything to do to add strenght without removing the tree from the seat? Is this particular place on the bar critical (take a lot of pressure)? The dark place under the bars are probably oil, the saddle was over-oiled

thanks for your help

.

pella,i've got one in my shop almost identical,same conchos,same style as to shape dees,horn wrap the works.no makers stamp,leather is together ,well oil'd,beyond use tho ,am cleaning ,refleecing, repairing to liveing room standards to stand n be looked at by family.owner says it is a schoelkopf jumbo and in the 40's n 50's his father pulled a ton of bulls home from straying ,the tree is thick in bars th rigs are on the tree almost and altho outmoded is mucho stout.adios peter john

[pella]

Hennessy: interresting, maybe the saddle i have was made by jumbo for the texas farm supply. Conchos are original? Do your saddle have a screw on horn?

Tree bars are wide and short too, 21", it's 6" gullet. They fit my own 14hands very well.

But just dont look confortable for me, i'll try it for a little ride when finish. My friend dont care, it's her first saddle.

I feel better now to go and put time on refurbishing the saddle :-)

Another feature is the all-leather ground seat and still in good shape.

[Blake]

That shell stamp pattern is typical of some of the S.D. Myers saddles of the 1950s , I have never seen it on a Jumbo but Troy West may know for sure when he reads the posts.

I know that Myers made saddles under contract for several different clients. I actually had a youth saddle in my collection several years back that had his stamp plus a Feed store in Illinois.

Both companies Myers and Jumbo have an interesting history and a decent reputation.

Blake

[bruce johnson]

Pella,

Here is the northern cousin to your Texas saddle. This one came on a saddled horse in a trainload of cattle my great grandfather bought from Miles City in the 30s. Johanna probably didn't believe me at first, but it sits in my living room. Actually I have two oldies in here.

That was a pretty common way to cover horns back in the day. I have seen some with a small brass nail and others with a slotted head wood screw securing the tab. The saddle came from Duhamels on Rapid City, South Dakota. The latigo carrier for this particular maker was stamped with the model of the saddle - #106 was the Ellensburg tree from Newton Bros, I was told. I have always heard this pattern referred to a a shell pattern also. One guy who has a Duhamel catalog told me they called this pattern the "acorn". I would dearly like to get my hands on a Duhamel catalog. The only one I have ever seen was under glass and they couldn't open the case. I heard from a collector that one of the Mile City catalogs called it an acorn pattern too, and another Miles City shop called theirs a shell.

[Timbo]

I've always heard it called a Montana shell pattern.

Tim

ps..........Bruce, can you load a pic of one of the fenders??

Edited November 3, 2008 by Timbo

[pella]

The saddle i have here is stamped "471" on the front jockey. Thanks for the details, very interresting and i can see i was on the good way about no metal concho and age of the saddle. Did you change the rigging dee?

Naive question to Bruce: Do the horse make the trip "saddled" in the train?!

Anyone can tell the style of the tree (fork) i have? I am still in "study" about these. It is about 13¼ swell and thick stock.

I post more picture of the "acorn" or "shell" motif for comparasion and reference. Also a picture of the front fork.

[bruce johnson]

Timbo,

I'll attach a couple of pics that show the fenders.

Pella,

I didn't change the rings. These are probably the original EZ dees. I think the EZ dees came out about 1915 or so. Interesting note - these dees are curved to follow the contour of the horse. I had thought for years that it was from use. After reading a discussion among some other makers, I am sure someone formed them. Several guys will form the larger rings to have that slight arch before they hang them on the saddle.

The horse was saddled for the train trip. My great grandfather used to feed a lot of cattle. He asked for them to send along a ranch horse on a load. He came down the ramp packing this saddle. He must have been pretty broncy. Apparently he rode the horse to my grandpa's. He could tell he was having some trouble with him and offered to drive him home and they'd lead the horse out the window. Great-grandpa figured he got him there, he could get him home. My dad isn't sure, but seems to remember he sold the horse to a local guy who put on Sunday afternoon catch-all bronc ridings.

[pella]

I had a picture of the finished saddle

I change all the wool, the guy that "repair" it before me did the worst job i ever see. He put some "real wool on fabric backing" and manage to take many small pieces and sew them together (and not with a flat baseball stich...) he put the wool WITHOUT removing the skirts!!! crazy...

Well now its fine for riding

Edited May 10, 2009 by pella