Advice Wanted On Pricking Irons/stitching Awl

[Grey Drakkon]

Thanks for clarifying, because I was stumped after counting the tines a few times and still coming out to 7 per an inch. Maybe that's the issue between the suppliers, when one says "7 per an inch" one is talking about stitches, the other is talking about tines. Neither one is wrong, they're just talking about two different things.

[Oldtoolsniper]

When I measure the Blanchard number 9 It gives me 9 Teeth per inch and 8 stitches, my number 7 dixon gives me 7 stitches. Anyone else get the same thing?

I posted the pictures to clear up the confusion. My apologies, I assumed seven holes meant seven stitches. Seven holes makes six stitches.

Perhaps DavidL can post pictures showing us his so we can see the difference between Dixons and Blanchards. I think that would make this a very helpful post for everyone looking at pricking irons in the future..

[Hi Im Joe]

I posted the pictures to clear up the confusion. My apologies, I assumed seven holes meant seven stitches. Seven holes makes six stitches.

Perhaps DavidL can post pictures showing us his so we can see the difference between Dixons and Blanchards. I think that would make this a very helpful post for everyone looking at pricking irons in the future..

See though what Macca was saying was correct. For that iron to give you seven stitches per inch it should have 8 prongs to an inch. It does not appear that way to me from the pictures.

[Oldtoolsniper]

See though what Macca was saying was correct. For that iron to give you seven stitches per inch it should have 8 prongs to an inch. It does not appear that way to me from the pictures.

There are only seven prongs to the inch on my Blanchard 7 8 iron. So on Blanchard made irons everything is counted by the prongs not the stitches.

I trust DavidL can post pictures of his tools so we can see.

If I understand this correctly Blanchard counts prongs per inch and everyone else counts stitch per inch.

[Macca]

so blanchard are tpi, dixons are spi

means the blanchards are even more expensive than the dixons as you have to go up a size to get the same spi.

[Oldtoolsniper]

To further make this clear as mud.

I have quite a pile of tools so I did a test run on some marking and overstitch wheels.

I did a few inches so it can be seen that they are close at best. I think it's a fair representation of what's out there and how they line up.

I know this is getting a little out there from what the OP was asking but there is a lot of good information being discussed and I think most folks start with these wheels for marking out stitches.

The first mark starts in the red line on the left side of the picture.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Oldtoolsniper

[Grey Drakkon]

I'm happy to be getting such a great discussion! I love seeing physical comparisons like that, so thanks.

[Bob Blea]

I'm learning a lot too as I'm considering getting irons. Would love to see pictures of the Dixon irons for comparison too.

[Oldtoolsniper]

I don't know about the pricking irons, but I would recommend a straight or very slightly tapered awl. The "wing awls" or "Saddler's awls" will leave a smallish hole on the back side of the hole and a large one at the front .. and the difference is more pronounced the thicker the leather. Take a look at the following picture. It shows a wing awl, three sizes Seiwa straight awls, and a Tandy (pretty sure Osborne) fine tapered awl side by side.

Other than that, What fits your hand best!?

Hope that helps

Bill

Are the Seiwa straight awls tapered at the tip and then the same thickness all the way back?

I have about thirty or so awl blades but I have no idea who the manufacturer is. I'm betting Osborne since they came in a box of osborne awl handles.

I have three different sized Blanchard diamond awl blades as well. These all taper and leave a big hole on the front and a little hole on the back.

I would think a slight taper and then the same size would make for the best looking stitch both front and back. I'm only guessing, all of mine are tapered.

[Macca]

I'm learning a lot too as I'm considering getting irons. Would love to see pictures of the Dixon irons for comparison too.

I'll take a few pictures of the dixons against a ruler, you will see they are very precise on the SPI

[Hi Im Joe]

Decided I'd post up some stuff b/c hey why not!

Here is a CS Osborne 8sti pricking iron and a Seiwa 5sti stitching chisel:

[Macca]

hmm, Joe takes better pictures than me !

heres some of the dixons.

7SPI

8SPI

9SPI

10SPI

12SPI

I guess that covers most of what you can get now.

just for fun, heres a couple they no longer make...

15SPI

16 SPI

really struggled to take pictures that shows the accuracy of the machining, but the dixons are spot on the SPI they should be

[Oldtoolsniper]

I know this thread kind of drifted but I can't help but think this is valuable information for anyone looking to buy pricking irons. I have to do everything by mail order and this will be very helpful for reference. To bad it's not under tools where more folks would find it.

Anyone have any ideas on how to do the awls? May as well get them in here to and make it a complete discussion.

[Oldtoolsniper]

Decided I'd post up some stuff b/c hey why not!

Here is a CS Osborne 8sti pricking iron and a Seiwa 5sti stitching chisel:

Joe,

What are your thoughts on the Seiwa chisels?

[Hi Im Joe]

hmm, Joe takes better pictures than me !

Iphone baby!

Joe,

What are your thoughts on the Seiwa chisels?

They are very nice. Sharp and very durable right out of the box. They feel much higher quality than the craftool chisels from Tandy.

[Macca]

I used an iPhone as well,so I can't hide behind that

Just down to me then !

[unicornleather]

Pricking irons are the the tools of choice in the UK saddlery trade, I have a chart in my workshop somewhere with thread sizes in ration to number of stitches and type of work, if I can find it I will post it on here to help.

The awls you mention are ready made I believe but in our trade we make our own, get some diamond awl blades and handles.

Place the awl blade in 2 copper coins (we use 2p pieces) make sure you have the right end that goes in to the wooden handle and insert the other end (the tip you are going to use to make holes with) down in to a bench mounted vice.Hold it firm but not too tight, the copper coins are softer than steel and protect the awl blade from the steel vice.

Gently offer up the wooden handle and tap on to the up turned awl blade with a rawhide or wooden mallet, keep checking you have the handle straight. Take out of vice, you now have your awl.

Sharpen them either on a oil stone or with emery cloth, strop on strop board to finish off.

Here are some photos.

First one is the diamond awl blade, the tip you push through the leather is on the left, the right side where the ridge is, goes in to the wooden handle. You place the copper coins over the left side to protect the blade and insert this in to the vice so the other end is sticking up.

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Second photo is the awl handle

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Edited December 11, 2014 by unicornleather

[Hi Im Joe]

I used an iPhone as well,so I can't hide behind that

Just down to me then !

Ha I win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just don't start showing that insane tool collection you have. LET ME HAVE MY MOMENT!!!!!!!!!!

[WyomingSlick]

so blanchard are tpi, dixons are spi

means the blanchards are even more expensive than the dixons as you have to go up a size to get the same spi.

NO ! What it means is that Blanchards are made in France and since they are on the metric system, the conversion from metric to "stitches per inch" is only going to be an approximate one

Looking at a Blanchard tool site we see the following chart to which I added the approximate total lengths (for their long iron) in red

5 Stitches per Inch Set (6 & 2 Teeth) - Dist. between teeth 5.5 mm = 27,5 mm

6 Stitches per Inch Set (7 & 2 Teeth) - Dist. between teeth 4.5 mm = 27,0 mm

7 Stitches per Inch Set (8 & 2 Teeth) - Dist. between teeth 3.9 mm = 27,3 mm

8 Stitches per Inch Set (9 & 2 Teeth) - Dist. between teeth 3.4 mm = 27,4 mm

9 Stitches per Inch Set (10 & 2 Teeth) - Dist. between teeth 3.0 mm = 27,0 mm

10 Stitches per Inch Set (11 & 2 Teeth) - Dist. between teeth 2.7 mm = 27,0 mm

12 Stitches per Inch Set (13 & 2 Teeth) - Dist. between teeth 2.5 mm = 28,0 mm

Now since an inch equal 25,4 mm, you can see that their numbers are only an approximate conversion, which is further demonstrated in the photos above

Unless you need to match the stitching, say on a repair item; what does it matter Simply use the appropriate iron for the job and it won't matter whether it is 7 stitches per inch, or 6.8 inches per inch

[MonicaJacobson]

I'm still not convinced tpi and spi is a big enough difference to matter. You guys had me all rattled when I bought my 8spi blanchard thinking it would give me roughly 7spi. When I measure the stitches, there are exactly 8 per inch. Good, I guess? Mine give me 8 stitches, or basically 8 1/2 slits.

[Oldtoolsniper]

This has been a very informative thread. I'm thinking at this point as long as it looks good and is done properly a stitch up or down really makes no difference. I can't imagine it makes much difference strength wise.

Now let's get the thread size and awl sizes worked out and this will be a phenomenal thread.

[DavidL]

Mines nearly identical the holes are smaller on mine as its a Number 9.

There are 9 Slits though in my 9 iron (9 teeth per inch) which makes it 8SPI.

The stitches are angled so it becomes very close to 9 SPI, I guess because there are gaps in-between the stitching shortening the stitch length.

The end results is 9SPI

Im still not sure if they are TPI or SPI Officially, I'll send an email and see what they say.

[Grey Drakkon]

I'm quite excited, I just got my irons and awl in the mail yesterday! Didn't get home until late so I couldn't play with them, but I did manage to stab myself with the awl by testing the point. Man it's sharp! I expected it to need sharpening so I lightly touched the tip and felt it go through skin. Can't wait to see it in action!

[Oldtoolsniper]

Grey,

A tip I picked up on here (sorry don't remeber who) was to use a wine cork on the other side of the leather to push the awl into. It works really well on items that ride higher in my stitching pony.

I also have the industrial size box of band-aids handy.

[Grey Drakkon]

I did see that tip and thought it was pretty clever. Fortunately I already have a giant box of bandaids due to the cardinal rule: Do not bleed on the artwork. I'll have to put up pics of my kludge job of my first stitching pony, finishing it up just in time!