Wade, full flower

[BrianHochstrat]

Here is one I finished last week. It is for a collector down in the Bay area Ca. I have been focusing on my engraving work more than saddles for the past year or so, but this individual has been a big supporter since early in my career. He keeps a saddle on order at all times and every year or two I will build it, typically I wait until he starts getting anxious then put him into the line up. They are all pretty much the same, except small changes, like going with a cheyenne roll, or different gullet measurements ect. but always a full flower Wade. Anyway, here are the pics let me know what you think. Thanks -Brian

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[jwwright]

Super work, as usual Brian. JW

[buffalo]

Beautiful work!!!!!!

Regards Buff

[hidepounder]

Really nice Brian....smooth, clean and nicely tooled!

[Hilly]

I don't know anything about horses or saddles, but I do appreciate beautiful carving and tooling, and yours is beautiful!

Now can I ask a ignorant question about saddles? I'm curious about the part of the saddle that the front string is going through. The piece with the slot in it. What is it, and what is it's function?

[bruce johnson]

Brian,

Very cool one again. Is the stirrup leather stitched down to the fender or stitched for effect? Neat idea to run the string throught the carrier.

[Mike Craw]

Hey Hilly!

That's called a "latigo carrier" and it's purpose is to carry...nah, that would be too stupid even for me!! Seriously, the shiny ring shaped object right in front of (and partially covered by) the fender is the rigging ring, and when the saddle is rigged to ride, there is a long strip of latigo leather laced through it. That latigo then goes down through the cinch that goes under the horse, and comes back up to tie on the rigging plate. This is how you adjust the tension on the cinch. Because the latigo is so long, there is generally a fair amount left over once the horse is saddled and the chinch tightened up, so rather than having it trail along on the ground where the horse can step on it, the end is passed through the slot in the carrier, and it keeps it up out of the way.

Oh, and it's not an ignorant question. If you don't ride or deal with saddles, there's no reason you would know that.

Mike

[Gary Winckler]

Here is one I finished last week. It is for a collector down in the Bay area Ca. I have been focusing on my engraving work more than saddles for the past year or so, but this individual has been a big supporter since early in my career. He keeps a saddle on order at all times and every year or two I will build it, typically I wait until he starts getting anxious then put him into the line up. They are all pretty much the same, except small changes, like going with a cheyenne roll, or different gullet measurements ect. but always a full flower Wade. Anyway, here are the pics let me know what you think. Thanks -Brian

Very nice work Brian.....as usual. I like the balance in this saddle and the clean lines. Did you antique this? It does not look like it to me but I can't tell for sure.

GW

[Hilly]

Hey Hilly!

That's called a "latigo carrier" and it's purpose is to carry...nah, that would be too stupid even for me!! Seriously, the shiny ring shaped object right in front of (and partially covered by) the fender is the rigging ring, and when the saddle is rigged to ride, there is a long strip of latigo leather laced through it. That latigo then goes down through the cinch that goes under the horse, and comes back up to tie on the rigging plate. This is how you adjust the tension on the cinch. Because the latigo is so long, there is generally a fair amount left over once the horse is saddled and the chinch tightened up, so rather than having it trail along on the ground where the horse can step on it, the end is passed through the slot in the carrier, and it keeps it up out of the way.

Oh, and it's not an ignorant question. If you don't ride or deal with saddles, there's no reason you would know that.

Mike

Could you please post a photo or a link so I can see what it looks like "in action"?

I have a friend that owns a couple horses, and I might not be the most observant person, but when I watched her saddle it, I saw her tighten the leather cinch strap, and it looked like she made a loop around the cinch just under that metal ring, and then brought the end through that ring and down again through the loop she just made (reminded me a little of how you tie a tie). Maybe it's a different type of saddle? She rides for pleasure and also used to take her horse to shows.

Also, the saddles around here don't have those bumps either side of the horn. Are those meant to keep you from sliding forward in the saddle? They look like they'd hurt to have them digging into your thighs?

Sorry for all the questions, I find saddles pretty interesting, and would like to attempt to make one some day.

Edited November 6, 2008 by Hilly

[ArtS]

Beautiful - extremely beautiful work.

Art

[mudman]

That's sweet!! Excellent job.

[bruce johnson]

Hilly,

What you saw your friend cinching up was using a latigo tie on a ring cinch. It makes a little larger (2-3 layers of latigo) lump at the rigging ring. It is kind of old-fashioned but a lot still do it. Most cinches have a tongue buckle and the buckle is the fastener. The excess tail length is just looped through the slot on the carrier and hangs there.

The bumps on either side of the horn are called bucking rolls. They are fastened to the forks of slick fork saddles (without swells) to add some width and prevent you from slding forward. Most are stuffed with some sort of padding - hair, synthetic fiber. clipped wool, or dense foam. They are softer than hitting the hard swells of a swell fork saddle. Some guys will make them from chap or veg tan leather. Some use exotics, some match the seat, some are tooled, some have fancy stitch patterns. Some have different profiles, higher, rounder, tear-dropped. They kind of take on a life of their own.

[BrianHochstrat]

Thanks for all the positive replies. The hole in the catcher for the string is actually one of the owners idiosincricies, if I did not punch a nice clean hole he would widdle a hole in it with his pocket knife once he recieved it. Yes there is a light amount of highlighter just enough to make the carving liven up, but not so much it looks like fake leather. Brian

[Cowboy Crafts Online]

Brian,

Great looking saddle. When are you coming to MO to teach your engraving class? I wish I had some vacation time and I would drive over to that side of the state and learn some things.

Ashley

[Hilly]

Hilly,

What you saw your friend cinching up was using a latigo tie on a ring cinch. It makes a little larger (2-3 layers of latigo) lump at the rigging ring. It is kind of old-fashioned but a lot still do it. Most cinches have a tongue buckle and the buckle is the fastener. The excess tail length is just looped through the slot on the carrier and hangs there.

The bumps on either side of the horn are called bucking rolls. They are fastened to the forks of slick fork saddles (without swells) to add some width and prevent you from slding forward. Most are stuffed with some sort of padding - hair, synthetic fiber. clipped wool, or dense foam. They are softer than hitting the hard swells of a swell fork saddle. Some guys will make them from chap or veg tan leather. Some use exotics, some match the seat, some are tooled, some have fancy stitch patterns. Some have different profiles, higher, rounder, tear-dropped. They kind of take on a life of their own.

Thanks for the explanation, Bruce. Now can you tell me what the strings are used for? Just to lash stuff to the saddle? Gosh, feel like a 3 year old with all these questions...

Hilly

[BrianHochstrat]

Brian,

Great looking saddle. When are you coming to MO to teach your engraving class? I wish I had some vacation time and I would drive over to that side of the state and learn some things.

Ashley

I will be down in Missouri May 4-8. The class is going to be pretty cool, we limit the class to 5 students, so there will be plenty of one on one tutoring. And Ray Cover has a really nice classroom. I am looking forward to it. You should try to make it over. -Brian

[bruce johnson]

Thanks for the explanation, Bruce. Now can you tell me what the strings are used for? Just to lash stuff to the saddle? Gosh, feel like a 3 year old with all these questions...

Hilly

Hilly,

No need to apologize, natural questions and good discussion points. The strings are to tie things on with.

To further cloud the issue, they also can be drilled through the saddle tree and looped through the skirts to help hold the skirts up tight to the tree and the parts they go through on top of the tree cinched down into place. It is more secure to have the strings looped through the tree, than through just the leather on top. An even less secure way is to loop them through the leather conchos and nail or screw them onto top leathers. To drill a tree or not for strings on saddles will divide saddlemakers into two camps.

[Go2Tex]

Very nice job! I really like the clean, sharp break on the cheyenne roll. Lays back just right.... just the way I like but I must admit I have a hard time achieving that affect with any consistency. I've tried various methods but I either end up needing a very long stitching awl due to the steep angle or I end up pulling the roll up in order to get the binding up tight under the back side, thus losing the angle I was after. I do skive the heck out of the binder too, trying to make it fold tight in the back.

I've tried using dry rawhide as a filler nailed to the top edge of the cantle and that works real well but it needs to be real flat and most the time rawhide has a tendency to buckle and not lay flat. If I put it on wet, then it draws up out of shape. I've tried leather fillers carved down to a sharp edge but then they are weak and floppy and/or just add to the thickness of the binding. A thin firm piece of leather, the width of the intended roll, pulled down tight against the back cantle piece and tacked at either side at the base of the cantle seems to hold the roll at the correct angle and adds firmness but then I'm left with the problem of having a that long angle to stitch.

So, long story short.... am I on the right track with any of this or do you have a better, easier way to do it?

[BrianHochstrat]

Very nice job! I really like the clean, sharp break on the cheyenne roll. Lays back just right.... just the way I like but I must admit I have a hard time achieving that affect with any consistency. I've tried various methods but I either end up needing a very long stitching awl due to the steep angle or I end up pulling the roll up in order to get the binding up tight under the back side, thus losing the angle I was after. I do skive the heck out of the binder too, trying to make it fold tight in the back.

I've tried using dry rawhide as a filler nailed to the top edge of the cantle and that works real well but it needs to be real flat and most the time rawhide has a tendency to buckle and not lay flat. If I put it on wet, then it draws up out of shape. I've tried leather fillers carved down to a sharp edge but then they are weak and floppy and/or just add to the thickness of the binding. A thin firm piece of leather, the width of the intended roll, pulled down tight against the back cantle piece and tacked at either side at the base of the cantle seems to hold the roll at the correct angle and adds firmness but then I'm left with the problem of having a that long angle to stitch.

So, long story short.... am I on the right track with any of this or do you have a better, easier way to do it?

I don't do any thing special to get that crisp fold other than work it square-ish with my hammer and rub stick, after the seat is glued in place and folded over, work that edge when the leather is about the same temper as when you tool it and it will hold its shape better. And yes the cantle binder is stitched at a pretty good angle, it can be difficult to keep your stitching nice when the thread is pulling some from the side so I run a creaser line along my holes to help that thread lay in the right spot. Brian

[Go2Tex]

I don't do any thing special to get that crisp fold other than work it square-ish with my hammer and rub stick, after the seat is glued in place and folded over, work that edge when the leather is about the same temper as when you tool it and it will hold its shape better. And yes the cantle binder is stitched at a pretty good angle, it can be difficult to keep your stitching nice when the thread is pulling some from the side so I run a creaser line along my holes to help that thread lay in the right spot. Brian

Do you use a filler that fills in the dish and folds over or just nails to the edge?

[BrianHochstrat]

Do you use a filler that fills in the dish and folds over or just nails to the edge?

I glue my fillers into the seat fold it over the edge of the cantle, I cut 3 pies out of the cantle back one at center and one on both sides about a 1/3 of the way down from center and loop stitch the cuts back together, shape and dry it. Once it is dry, glue your filler in, also it only needs to be about a 10 oz. thickness and have it pretty wet, pull it over the edge and stick it down to the cantle back. Get it worked down some and skive it down to where it is contoured in the seat and has a square fold over the edge. Let it dry and then sand all the skive marks out with a rubber disc sander.

[Go2Tex]

Thanks very much for taking the time to explain your method. It's just about the same thing I did on my last roll. I had it layed back real nice but when I put the binding on, there wasn't enough room under the roll for the binding fold and my fingers without pulling the roll up some, which naturally spoiled my angle.

I think the key is how one installs and shapes the back cantle piece. Cutting those pie shapes out and stitching is part of it but making room under there for the binding is, I believe now, where I need to work on it.

Thanks again for the help with this.

Brent

[Newfman]

I just visited your website. Your saddlery is amazing. The carving is incredible. While I can understand how (not that I can do it) you folks can carve a flower or something. I can easily wrap my head around that. The creating this whole flow around and through all the parts of a saddle, the maze and mural like artistry, and to have it all start and finish so completely, yet no percievable start or finishing point. . .yup, I guess i am just dumfounded by artists.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Newfman