Neutralizing Vinegaroon Process?

[zaynexpetty]

I use warm water to neutralize, as close to body temperature as I can get it, it helps the baking soda dissolve and seems to keep it more evenly suspended in the water. For most of my projects I use the same 6 quart bucket to neutralize in and I use a heaping tablespoon of baking soda, an actual measuring spoon tablespoon.

I don't really time how long I leave things in the neutralizer, usually I'm dying multiple things at once, as I remove each piece from the vinegaroon I allow the excess to run off then place it the in the neutralizer and remove the previous piece, I would guess each piece stays in around 30-40 seconds. I mainly use 5-6oz and 7-8oz leather, if I'm working with thinner or thicker weights I'll adjust the soak time accordingly, but I never go over a full minute. I rinse everything at once following the order that the pieces were removed from the neutralizer. I prefer rinsing in hot water, the neutralizer leaves a "slick" residue on the leather and I find that the hot water removes it faster.

I've never had success with oiling while still wet or damp, I always get the best results by oiling after it's completely dry. The few times that I have oiled while damp I've had to go back a few days later and re-oil.

The best way to get rid of the walnut smell is heat and sunlight, setting the piece(s) in a warm sunny spot for a few days will take the smell down to a level that is more acceptable. The smell will eventually go away on its own, it takes around 4-6 weeks, but sunlight and heat will speed it up.

Why is it that I can never get a more in-depth and thorough response than the ones you give?? Haha.

I will have to give this a go.

Thanks again!

[anhurset]

The leather was fine and the item turned a really dark brown from blue black. Obviously not the same problem you had with what was apparently a poorly tanned hide. The customer decided she actually preferred the color and kept the item.

The bubbles can appear immediate if at all and are most likely the reaction of the residual vinegaroon and the bicarbonate. I did not suggest that one wait for the bubbles to stop, however I don't buy your "damaged leather" assumption.

I find that for production work, if I am not using drum dyed, I spray two coats of stain diluted 50/50, takes about 5 minutes, a light oil, another couple of minutes then resolene 2 minutes and a spray wax finish of about 30 seconds. Total time under ten minutes. With vinegaroon the same product required significantly longer dry times, 3 or 4 heavy oilings, which is not inexpensive, and a lot of rubbing and waiting. I would guess 5 times as much time and effort as a spray coat of dye. In addition I buy my Feibings locally so no transportation and hazmat charges and cost per item is a fraction of what I spend on oil, even Costoco EVOO. No cost saving what so ever, unless of course, you work for free. I don't.

Again I find the long (5-10 minutes) soak in Vinegaroon stiffens the leather and requires a lot more finishing work. Not cost effective.

I do use it for "hobby projects" because it's fun to home brew.

Cya!

Bob

I was simply attempting to curtail people misinterpreting your statement about the bubbles as a gauge for neutralizing, as to the color issue with vinegaroon you will note that I also suggested that it could have been due to a weak mixture.

And yes, it does seem that price is subjective, not everyone lives close enough to a leather supplier to avoid the HLF, also not all leather workers have the room to devote to a spray area. For me it's easier to drop an item into my vinegaroon bucket and set the timer to five minutes. Waiting for things to dry is an integral part of leather work, if a customer can wait for me to hand stitch a piece then they can wait for an item to dry properly.

Why is it that I can never get a more in-depth and thorough response than the ones you give?? Haha.

I will have to give this a go.

Thanks again!

No problem. Those aren't set measurements though, the strength of the vinegar in your vinegaroon may call for some adjustments. Edited December 10, 2014 by anhurset

[BDAZ]

Waiting for things to dry is an integral part of leather work, if a customer can wait for me to hand stitch a piece then they can wait for an item to dry properly.

Not worried about the customer waiting, it's my time that is critical. If I can save time in the finishing process I can be more productive, keep my prices lower and sell more product, As I mentioned, this is not a hobby for some of us and I cost my time at $25 an hour of actual working time.

I also suggested that it could have been due to a weak mixture.

Actually the mixture was fine but I suspect the immersion time should have been a bit longer. It was probably only a couple of minutes, however, I do my dipping on my patio / spray booth / wood shop where it was well over 100F at the time. So both making and using vinegaroon is a faster process. Might have just been the result of the high temperatures. Wet forming takes minutes!

Cya!

Bob

Edited December 10, 2014 by BDAZ

[ChuckBurrows]

The bubbles can appear immediate if at all and are most likely the reaction of the residual vinegaroon and the bicarbonate. I did not suggest that one wait for the bubbles to stop, however I don't buy your "damaged leather" assumption.

As noted bark/veg tan is by nature on the acidic side of the scale (about 4.5 - 7.0 is neutral), So you will get bubbles even if not using vinegar black. As for the "damaged leather" assumption - it is not an assumption at all, it is fact based on 45+ years of experience. Leave the leather too long in the baking soda will cause alkali burn which ruins the leather and that's a fact based in science as well as long experience. Leave leather in a baking soda bath even without using vinegar black for too long will turn it almost blacj and very brittle. A fairly weak - a 1/8 cup to a half gallon of water - baking soda mix and then just a quick but thorough dip into the BS mix is all that is needed to set the color.

[BDAZ]

Chuck, you were responding to the wrong response: The damaged I was referring to was:

Anhurset: The only time I've had vinegaroon turn brown was on a bad hide, the surface disintegrated and the leather took on a dark brown color.

I only dip for 20-30 seconds then rinse in warm water. There are many folks that don't bother with no apparent issues.

Cya!

Bob

[jrny4wrd]

If I were to use eco flo on parts of a project and use vinagaroon on others, what do u feel would be the best method to neutralize the vinegaroon?

[BDAZ]

Wouldn't work because vinegaroon needs to penetrate into the leather and it would spread..

Cya!

Bob

[jrny4wrd]

So, your saying painting with vinegaroon is not effective because it does not soak in enough, or am I taking that wrong.

[Walstr]

I've seen mentioned here a few times, that a 'dark brown' color resulted from 'depleted' Vinegaroon. I desire a dark brown color, naturally, but my home brewed Walnut Husk broth doesn't get there.

I made my first qt. batch of Vinegroon. I small test piece [hopefully to be my 1st CAS rig] turned dark grey after an hour, then pure black after neutralizing, exciting to see what I done did! Now the experiments begin...

I'm going to add 1/8 tsp Vinegaroon to a cup of Walnut broth & look for my dark brown color, then add a little more Vinegroon for next test, etc.

Anyone have a more successful recipe for home brewed dark brown dye? Thanks.

Just getting started,

Wally