Krystian Report post Posted December 10, 2014 Hi guys and girls, I have a bit of a problem. I am still a beginner and I don't have all of the tools yet. Not enough skill to use the ones I have yet so I guess that there is no need to build up on my workshop. Long story short. Instead of buying a strap cutter for my girlfriends belt (Christmas preset, so bit urgent issue!) I bought a pre-cut belt on eBay. It supposed to be a "high quality" veg tan tooling leather. In my not-so-experienced opinion it is far from high quality. The skin side seems to be very thin and the grain side is thick and tough. As a result the swivel knife drags like hell and I can't go in as deep as needed for the tooling to look right. I tried 4 different blades. Those blades work perfectly fine on other leather I have (even some cut off scrap pieces I bought for practice) so it is not a matter of them not being sharp enough. I thought that I will ask you before giving an earful to the seller. Is there any way to make this leather work or I should not waste my time? Thanks! K. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDAZ Report post Posted December 10, 2014 Some of the pre cut belts are NOT vegetable tanned and consequently, they won't get soft when you case the leather and will be not be suitable for carving. I assume your scraps are veg tanned. Cheers! Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krystian Report post Posted December 10, 2014 Hi Bob, Thank you for your answer. The seller listed the belt as veg tanned leather, I would not buy it otherwise. Please see the auction below: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171325936943?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&var=470388457103&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Cheers, K. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDAZ Report post Posted December 10, 2014 Oh My..well the leather may be "defective"? Dried out, incorrectly tanned but certainly not right. I'd contact the seller and ask for a proper blank as this one is not carving properly. Good Luck! Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krystian Report post Posted December 10, 2014 Thanks Bob, Seller just replied to me saying that it is definitely "good quality" leather and it may not be "ideal" because it is "natural" (???) Say what? That's the whole point of veg tan to be as close to natural as possible, am I right? Anyway, he said that I can return it if it is in the same condition. Obviously it is not because I discovered that it is poor quality in the process of tooling it... I don't think that I will bother to argue for the sake of £15 (I bought 2 of them). I should have got a strap cutter and order "half of a cow" from my trusted supplier... Live and learn I guess. Thanks for your reply Bob. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
papaw Report post Posted December 10, 2014 Ok first have you cased the leather, some leathers are very hard and that said yours could be one of those. But that being said most all veg tan can be tooled. Wet (dampen) the leather with a clean sponge and distilled water (if you have distilled) if not tap water will work. Wait till the leather just starts to return to its normal color then try tooling it. Here is the start, you didn't say water you did to start you may have already followed these steps. Veg tan for a belt should be 6 oz. to normally 10oz sorry I do not have my metric chart with me, so it should be thick. Repost here and let people know what you have done and any pictures maybe worth thousands of words. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krystian Report post Posted December 10, 2014 Hi Papaw, Thank you for your reply. To answer your questions: - I have ceased the leather and I re-do it when it dries out. I've done it exactly as you have described - I don't mind the belt being thick - as you said, belts should be thick. Problem is that the flesh side is very thick and the skin side very thin. Flesh side is very hard as well, so when the swivel knife goes through the thin layer of skin it gets dragged by this thick and hard flesh side. I will attach the photos but they are a bit embarrassing - my tooling normally looks much better. I have to put so much force against it that I can't be as precise as I wish to be - my hand is killing me and I am only half way through ! And it drags, it drags a lot. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36379698/2014-12-10%2015.07.33.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36379698/2014-12-10%2015.06.59.jpg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDAZ Report post Posted December 10, 2014 If it were me I would explain that one wouldn't know if it was poor unless you tried carving it. Send them both back for a refund and threaten bad feedback. It's not the £15, it's the principle. Cya! Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Sioux Saddlery Report post Posted December 10, 2014 Different leathers case up differently. Have you tried a casing agent? Search the forum and it should come up with something. I've had leathers that had so much drag I had to strop my knife very often. Made a long process out of what should have been an easy job. Best of luck to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krystian Report post Posted December 10, 2014 Thanks Big Sioux, I have no ceasing agent and I don't think that I will be able to have one delivered before Christmas in time to have this finished. I guess your answer was what I was looking for: "deal with it, shit happens" I will strop the knife every leaf (as it seems to help a bit) and do what I can with it. BTW, seller insists that the leather is high quality and it is not old/dried out. Well, that's his opinion. I am sure that I will not buy anything else from him. I guess we all have our own imagination about "high quality"... Pity that I had to learn this lesson on my girlfriends present though... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billybopp Report post Posted December 10, 2014 You MIGHT have a little luck if you "super case" this leather. If you are doing as papaw suggested, I call that "surface casing" .. and it works perfectly fine for most leathers, whether carving or stamping. Occasionally, however, when I want my cuts to be deeper than normal, or work with difficult leather I soak the leather pretty thoroughly, or "super case" as I call it. Roll up the belt blank, and put it in a container of water for a few minutes until the leather is saturated. Hang the leather up to partially dry. When it has dried, but is still perhaps a little wetter than normal make your cuts. After the cuts are made, let it dry further to more "normal" cased state to make any stamped impressions. It might work for you. It might not. But I think it may be worth a try. Hope that works! Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
papaw Report post Posted December 10, 2014 If you want here is home made Casing Solution Lexol 1/2 cup --- 1-1/2 cups distilled water --- 1 tablespoon baby shampoo (no tears) --- 1 tablespoon of the old brown colored Listerine ( I think any would work as long as there is no color to stain) Just if you wish to try something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BDAZ Report post Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Listerine = Dettol. Another way of casing is to thoroughly wet the surface, then roll up the belt and place in a plastic bag overnight in the fridge to prevent mold. BTW what part of London are you in? Cya! Bob Edited December 10, 2014 by BDAZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Blea Report post Posted December 10, 2014 You could also modify pawpaw's recipe a bit by substituting Glycerin for the Lexol which might be hard for you to find in London. Glycerin acts a bit like a moisturizer (it's used in soaps and lotions) and at least here in the states you can get it at any drug store. I wouldn't add more than a tablespoon to the water. The Glycerin might help the leather to be softer and at least in my experience it seems to help the leather retain moisture and not dry out as quickly. Just my 2 pence. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krystian Report post Posted December 10, 2014 Thank you all for your advice, you are all great! I managed to finish cutting it with swivel knife before I could see your responses and I have to say that the more I wet it and with stropping the knife more than often it did get slightly easier by the end. But not as deep as I would wish it to be. Oh well. I will definitely try out your recipes for the second belt (too much hustle to return them). I have a side question: does any of the chemicals that you add to your mixtures affect dyeing ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwinOaks Report post Posted December 11, 2014 They **shouldn't** effect dyeing, but this leather appears to be problematic. If you haven't already done so, I suggest wiping down the surface with rubbing alcohol or some other cleaner (acetone, denatured alcohol, etc.) as it's possible that the surface of the leather has a finish on it. Even if it doesn't, wiping down will help clean off all the fingerprint oils, smudges, etc....which WILL affect the dyeing. A quick question: If you put a drop of water on the surface of the leather, does it immediately soak in, or does it sit there for a short while? If it doesn't soak in right away, it's either: 1. not correctly tanned 2. not vegtan (bridle leather maybe?) 3. it has some sort of finish on the grain side.......or some combination of these. If the water does soak in quickly, it IS likely vegtan, and you will need to go with the full casing procedure, and bag it overnight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krystian Report post Posted February 10, 2015 Hi all, Thank you for all the responses and apologies for disappearing from the forum for a while. I have had a very busy begging of the year at my day job and weather in London was so cold that my garage was not a very pleasant environment to work with leather anyway. The belt in question has been finished. It came out nice, not perfect but nice - girlfriend was pleased! I will try out your ceasing agents recipes for the next belt. Many thanks! https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36379698/2014-12-14%2017.39.50.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36379698/2014-12-14%2014.22.56.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36379698/2014-12-27%2022.21.11.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36379698/2014-12-27%2022.22.42.jpg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
papaw Report post Posted February 10, 2015 For all the issues you had I think the belt came out fine Good Job Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eccho Report post Posted February 10, 2015 Well it looks like the struggle was worth the while, very nice belt ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krystian Report post Posted February 11, 2015 Thank you for a good word!She is wearing it and all of her friends are asking where did she get it - so I guess that she likes it as well Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wild Bill46 Report post Posted February 21, 2015 The orders for other belts will be coming in soon ! That is a very nice belt in spite of all your woes. --- Wild Bill46 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
