oil and moisture inhibitor for leather

[Peterk]

Hello all,

Just started holster making as a hobby and have seen on brigadegunleather.com that they dunk holster parts into a bucket of oil, and brush a moisture inhibitor mixture to the flesh side of the leather prior to assembly... Does anyone know what type of oil they may be using? And what that moisture inhibitor mix, that prevents moisture from seeping through, may be?

I know this may be trade secret, but it looks to be some great processes to help me progress in my hobby so I would like to try it. Any suggestions on substitutions of these items would be great as well! Thanks in advance.

Peter

[rickybobby]

I am not sure what they are brushing on the inside, the dunking is most likely "Neats Foot Oil" or "Neats Foot Oil Compound"

Rick J.

[Peterk]

I've heard neats foot oil being used quite a bit in saddle-making so I figure that may be it since Brigade calls theirs a saddle oil. Thanks much Rick! Now to figure out what that white substance may be...

[Lobo]

The oil is almost without a doubt neatsfoot oil compound. Personally, I don't dunk my holsters, but each gets a liberal application done with a loaded paint brush. The leather absorbs it quickly and neatsfoot provides excellent long-term protection. Excessive application of neatsfoot oil will leave any leather limp and useless, so until you get a feel for working with the stuff remember that multiple light applications are better than one heavy application.

After oiling (and 24 hours for the oil to settle into the leather) try Fiebing's Bag Kote, an old saddle-maker's favorite. Sprayed or swabbed over the exterior, it provides an excellent surface seal and cures quickly to a very nice egg-shell luster. Apply it inside to seal the grain side and it will also make the interior surfaces lie flat and smooth for a very nice finished appearance.

For a higher luster on the exterior, try Fiebing's Leather Sheen, also can be sprayed or swabbed.

Tip: Always use the Bag Kote and the Leather Sheen at room temperature. If it is too cold it can blotch and streak with no corrective processes known to me.

Lobo (Lobo Gun Leather, making serious equipment for serious business).

Hello all,

Just started holster making as a hobby and have seen on brigadegunleather.com that they dunk holster parts into a bucket of oil, and brush a moisture inhibitor mixture to the flesh side of the leather prior to assembly... Does anyone know what type of oil they may be using? And what that moisture inhibitor mix, that prevents moisture from seeping through, may be?

I know this may be trade secret, but it looks to be some great processes to help me progress in my hobby so I would like to try it. Any suggestions on substitutions of these items would be great as well! Thanks in advance.

Peter

[twofour878]

I've heard neats foot oil being used quite a bit in saddle-making so I figure that may be it since Brigade calls theirs a saddle oil. Thanks much Rick! Now to figure out what that white substance may be...

White substance? Could it be a sheen? I know my super-sheen is white. I'm a noob so don't quote me on it.

[Peterk]

Thanks Lobo for your help! I really appreciate it. I will get some supplies going and try them out on my next project.

Brigade calls this white inhibitor their "mixture"... Who knows...

[esantoro]

I'm bumping this thread to the top, as it might help gather some useful information.

Ed

[Peterk]

the thread right underneath, called "Great Photos" is discussing that mysterious mixture also.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Peterk

[esantoro]

There are a few products Weaver offers that I've been wanting to try, but I'm not sure of their uses or if they duplicate other products available or work better than other products.

All of these are from Weaver's catalog:

1. Weaver Leather Kote (clear): Flat acrylic top coat finish, excellent adhesion and flexibility. My educated guess is that this is another of LCI's products (originally, maybe a Dyo product), perhaps a duplicate of something like Fiebing's Bag Kote. It sounds like a possibility for sealing the flesh side

2. Fiebing's Harness Dressing (clear): another flat finish

3. Weaver Tuff Kote (clear and black): Satiny finish used for top and edge finish. Doesn't rub off or wash off. I think this is another LCI product, perhaps it was originally a Dyo product.

4. Top Coat #200: Seals veg tan and chromed tan leather for effective waterproofing, simply spray on. I believe this is another Dyo/LCI product.

Here's a link to information on similar products from DYO. If the products are still in existence, they are now manufactured and distributed LCI

http://www.dyo.com/leather_catalog.html#leather_sealers

I'm calling Weaver LEather on Monday and asking what they have to seal the flesh side of leather.

Ed

Edited December 21, 2008 by esantoro

[Leerwerker]

Just be very careful with oil and leather - you can apply it quite liberal with a paint brush, but NEVER dunk it. Ask the saddle makers - someone walks into their shop with a 'rescued' saddle that they dunked in oil, they just get shown the door again...

Too much oil will deteriorate the strength of the leather - the fibers have nothing to hold onto ... Also, you can use any oil from animal or plant origin, but NEVER a mineral oil (I know neatsfoot compound has some mineral oils in, but my advice comes from the Leather Chemists of America).

I hope this helps!

[esantoro]

Just be very careful with oil and leather - you can apply it quite liberal with a paint brush, but NEVER dunk it. Ask the saddle makers - someone walks into their shop with a 'rescued' saddle that they dunked in oil, they just get shown the door again...

Too much oil will deteriorate the strength of the leather - the fibers have nothing to hold onto ... Also, you can use any oil from animal or plant origin, but NEVER a mineral oil (I know neatsfoot compound has some mineral oils in, but my advice comes from the Leather Chemists of America).

I hope this helps!

I wonder if Brigade is using this DYO/LCI product:

From the DYO website:

DYO Dipping Oil:

Dyo Dipping Oil is a revolutionary finishing product for leather goods manufacturers. When pieces are dipped in DYO Dipping Oil they display an even, well oiled finish that dries much quicker than traditional oils and there is not the oily residue produced by many oil finishing products.

Application: Dip & Lay Flat to Dry

ed

[Peterk]

I wonder if Brigade is using this DYO/LCI product:

From the DYO website:

DYO Dipping Oil:

Dyo Dipping Oil is a revolutionary finishing product for leather goods manufacturers. When pieces are dipped in DYO Dipping Oil they display an even, well oiled finish that dries much quicker than traditional oils and there is not the oily residue produced by many oil finishing products.

Application: Dip & Lay Flat to Dry

ed

I believe the name of the oil is on the bucket in one of Brigade's pictures on the website. I found out about Neatsfoot Oil from one of their pictures.

[esantoro]

I believe the name of the oil is on the bucket in one of Brigade's pictures on the website. I found out about Neatsfoot Oil from one of their pictures.

That's Sheps Neatslene Harness Oil, a combination of neatsfoot oil and other oils., has rat and mice deterrent.

It seems that Weaver is their major supplier. I will have the name of that sealer on Monday.

Ed

[badger]

I'd be willing to bet real money that the white sealer is PVA based.

See the way it has a very slight bluish tint?

I use a lot of PVA based adhesives, including Pros-Aide (a medical adhesive ) and they all exhibit the bluish tint. Also they all go on white and dry clear. They will form a moisture proof barrier when dry.

You can dilute PVA with plain tap water.....

Karl

[esantoro]

I'd be willing to bet real money that the white sealer is PVA based.

See the way it has a very slight bluish tint?

I use a lot of PVA based adhesives, including Pros-Aide (a medical adhesive ) and they all exhibit the bluish tint. Also they all go on white and dry clear. They will form a moisture proof barrier when dry.

You can dilute PVA with plain tap water.....

Karl

Here's this from a nineteenth-century leather tanning journal:

Taking cues from this article and Karl's post, I diluted tanner's bond with tap water. Look no further: It works beautifully, though I am curios to pry a bit further and follow the articles suggestion of mixing in pure soap and a bit of oil. Any idea of that these might provide?

Thanks, Karl.

Ed

[badger]

Well,

Soap is a surfactant and will promote flow and break the surface tension of the liquid. A little soap probably won't do any harm. Baby shampoo or dish detergent. It'll make the solution easier to apply, it'll soak in better and faster.

PVA forms a skin by cross-linking of the molecules. Basically it's an aqueous acrylic emulsion, Acrylic molecules in water. Water based house paints are the same. If you let one dry right out it'll form an acrylic slab in the bottom of the can, effectively a lump of coloured Plexiglass.

After you paint on the PVA solution on the leather, the water will evaporate. When it's all gone the acrylic molecules 'join hands' (crosslink) and a plastic film is formed.

I can't see how adding oil will help.

If it intereferes with the crosslinking process a film may not form and the solution may not dry properly.

Watered down PVA on it's own with very little soap, just a drop, should do it. It'll be strong and flexible and water proof. It'll adhere strongly to the flesh side of leather, no problem.

Cheers,

Karl

*edited to correct the apparent inability of the author to write in his first language......

Edited December 22, 2008 by badger

[esantoro]

Well,

Soap is a surfactant and will promote flow and break the surface tension of the liquid. A little soap probably won't do any harm. Baby shampoo or dish detergent. It'll make the solution easier to apply, it'll soak in better and faster.

PVA forms a skin by cross-linking of the molecules. Basically it's an aqueous acrylic emulsion, Acrylic molecules in water. Water based house paints are the same. If you let one dry right out it'll form an acrylic slab in the bottom of the can, effectively a lump of coloured Plexiglass.

After you paint on the PVA solution on the leather, the water will evaporate. When it's all gone the acrylic molecules 'join hands' (crosslink) and a plastic film is formed.

I can't see how adding oil will help.

If it intereferes with the crosslinking process a film may not form and the solution may not dry properly.

Watered down PVA on it's own with very little soap, just a drop, should do it. It'll be strong and flexible and water proof. It'll adhere strongly to the flesh side of leather, no problem.

Cheers,

Karl

*edited to correct the apparent inability of the author to write in his first language......

That should do it. Now we can also call this our own "Exclusive Compound." Thanks, Karl.

Ed

[badger]

Welcome

Karl