stropping Report post Posted January 23, 2015 HI` To all I hope the input given here would help others to decide, In my later days trying to restore every thing I bought for a bargain it would mostly be either rusty seized or broke,Lets face it the worse it was the cheaper I would get it for, I always imagine I would bring the item back from the dead and most of the time I would, but at a cost £££,I found that the older the machine the harder it was to get original parts and at a price but we persist,not so much these days as internet solves most, I my self is fascinated with the workings and quality and cleverness of the engineers back then, ,There is always some thing magical beautiful when seeing machines in motion and they were built to last,Even the simplest of machines were built with quality.Buy keeping machines true to there original state tells the history to any one seeing it, This gets to my question I have a 29k4 leather patcher this I think is not the original name of this machine but I am sure some one would put me right,Any way after finding original part that was not to worn down I began to look more closely at its decor and the flaky paintwork due to the rust in places,Now this is a hard decision for me what to do,do I strip the machine down to its metal and loose 85% of its decor or save the decor and let the rust under the paint work carry on eating away the machine,The reason for the hard decision is removing its decor in this situation. Well as I love items original and most of the time replacing the paint and decor with closely matched transfers would in my opinion will loose its originality and loose its value and characteristics, but would solve its rust problem,I could treat expose rust and touch up paint work to blend in with the rest, I would like to know what would you do? and how you would go about this situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Brosowski Report post Posted January 23, 2015 Generally I like to keep as close to original unless most of the decals are gone. Don't forget that it was not unusual for machines to be fully refurbished during their lives and be repainted and have new decals applied so it is not always possible to know what is "original" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted January 24, 2015 Hard to decide w/o seeing pictures. I would probably strip the machine (I just did it with a 29K1) and re paint it. 29K are not rare machines and the older they are the worst their performance is - most of the time. You have to decide what you want to have in your work shop - a rusty original machine or a good looking machine (not speaking of the performance). I´d prefer a good looking machines. And for 29K´s you can buy full new decal sets. It´s the same as with old timer cars - most people like to have nice looking cars. Even restored cars are still oldtimers. But it of course depends... Always keep in mind that customers could come to your shop and I think a good looking machine leaves a better impression than and rusted one, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stropping Report post Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) Thank you all for advice, And thank you leather worker for the link to decor,At some point I will get around to showing pictures of the present state of the machine. It works great apart from the odd action when I use the lever to lift the foot I pull the lever up wards to bring the foot back down and the foot will not go down unless I start to turn the handle,I don`t know weather this it a pressure problem ie setting to much pressure on the foot and causing it to lock, Any way going of track here from the original question, I,me still in to minds what to do ,if for my own use probably should strip and repaint with decor so no more rusting` as most people under stand that with old machines the decor does in time where away so its more expected,But if selling some people like it kept original and that gives them the choice weather to restore the decor them selves, May be this is going to be down to ones own personal taste Edited January 24, 2015 by stropping Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted January 24, 2015 it depends - I think a restored machine is worth more than a barn find. Don´t expect everybody loves the vintage & worn appearance. It for sure has some charm but it depends on the overall appearance. If you want a machine just for decoration - fine - sell as is but if someone really wants to use it I think a nice restored machine will bring you some more $. Just my opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stropping Report post Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) And your welcome to your opinion`that is what I want to help me realize what is best for this machine as I am struggling to come to my own decision at the moment,Tell me the two transfer sets showing in the links are they as good as the original work when on the machine,well what I mean is do they look wrong because to me the coulor looks brown`y yellow or is it just me nit picking Edited January 24, 2015 by stropping Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Brosowski Report post Posted January 25, 2015 I have used some of their decals but not the 29k one yet. There is an art to applying them and if you get it right they are brilliant. They will always look different to the original as the Singer top coat is no longer available and I would suggest medium gloss for industrials and high gloss for domestics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stropping Report post Posted January 25, 2015 Are these the type that soak in water then you would slide them of onto the area, and while still wet they could be adjusted,then you dab them dry, also when these are applied on to a mat finish would this make them harder to slide, I take it this is how the machine would be done mat finish then transfers then top clear coating high gloss or medium over the whole lot,if so do you have to watch what top clear coating is used as some might react bad to the transfers :spoton:or Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Constabulary Report post Posted January 25, 2015 yes they are water slide decals. I have used them on my 111G156 and 133K3 and some lamps. I´m satisfied. For detailed instructions contact the seller or check his website: http://www.customfeatherweights.com/decals-page/29 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billybopp Report post Posted January 25, 2015 I can't speak for sewing machines, but on the plastic scale models that I used to build, water slide decals work much better on a gloss finish for several reasons. Matt and semi-matt finishes will allow air to be trapped between the finish and decal which causes decals to silver in any clear areas. The technique that I eventually settled on was to always use high gloss paint, slide on the decals, and then apply a clear coat finish with the appropriate gloss / matt level. Additionally, there are a couple of products that can be helpful in applying those water slide decals. " Micro Set" is used to break the water surface tension and help decals to settle onto the surface more thoroughly, which can prevent them coming loose later. It also softens the decal just slightly to help it match contours. Once the decal is in place, and working from one end of the decal to the other, use a soft smooth rag to slowly help place the decal and absorb excess water, and work out any trapped air. It will not slide around very easily after the water is gone If there are any bubbles or contour problems once the decal is dry you can use "Micro Sol", which is a softening solution to re-soften it, make a tiny pinpoint hold over the raised area, then apply the "Micro Sol" to soften the area and work out the air. Hope that helps Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stropping Report post Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Hey Bill great info man thanks,It always makes the restoration if I decide to go a head with it much easier to deal with when people give over there knowledge and Techniques they learnt over time,Many people will benefit from every ones input here, And a big thank`s again leather worker for photos and info on the decor looks pretty good to me, Bill as the decor on the base of the sewing machine is a decent size the Micro Sol as well as breaking the water service you state it softens the transfer slightly this wont distort the transfer will it ? And the other question to those who have the info, the top clear coat going on the paint would need to be tough enough to with stand machine lubricant oil going on it from time to time but would not be to high in solvent to attack the transfers,I would be thinking of plasticcoat clear spray may be any recommendations please, Edited January 25, 2015 by stropping Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stropping Report post Posted January 25, 2015 Owe ye` There was a product I read about for pitted metal, as we all know when coating cast the dimples seam to get deeper the more coatings it has unless you keep rubbing the under coast down and do the same as the top coats,when I read about this product that you put on the cast first this does a better job at filling the pits,I am not sure if the person had to rub this product down once or not I cannot remember,any one know what this may of been please, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billybopp Report post Posted January 25, 2015 The micro set only slightly softens, and is usually brushed onto the surface where the decal will go. I've never done decals as large as the ones you're looking at since I model in 1/72 for airplanes and 1/24 for cars. However, even some of those decals are reasonably large. Micro Sol probably would soften too much at application time, but does well after the decal is on and mostly dry. Hope that helps, Bill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stropping Report post Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) ok ill keep that in mind thanks, I am swaying towards a full strip down as it might still give a nice look and no more worry about rust, Edited January 25, 2015 by stropping Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colt W Knight Report post Posted January 26, 2015 I have used some of their decals but not the 29k one yet. There is an art to applying them and if you get it right they are brilliant. They will always look different to the original as the Singer top coat is no longer available and I would suggest medium gloss for industrials and high gloss for domestics. Are sewing machine decals simply waterslide decals? I have had to deal with really old waterslide decals before restoring vintage guitars. They can be a real trick to do right, but like you say, when they are done right they look great. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stropping Report post Posted January 26, 2015 Are sewing machine decals simply waterslide decals? I have had to deal with really old waterslide decals before restoring vintage guitars. They can be a real trick to do right, but like you say, when they are done right they look great. Hi Colt yes they are well from what info I had read I should imagine so,if you read some of the replies people have written there are links that give tips on how to apply,there is a link about 7 sections up by leatherworker he post a link. you will see where these transfers are for sale and the description on applying, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tramps Leatherworking Report post Posted January 27, 2015 Stropping, what you are asking is a matter of personal taste --- I have two 90+ year old Singer treadles and all I did was give them a good cleaning and left them in their original condition. I think it gives them character, and I get a ton of compliments on the machines. I use them daily too, by the way... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colt W Knight Report post Posted January 27, 2015 Hi Colt yes they are well from what info I had read I should imagine so,if you read some of the replies people have written there are links that give tips on how to apply,there is a link about 7 sections up by leatherworker he post a link. you will see where these transfers are for sale and the description on applying, I don't know how I missed the entire middle section of this thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stropping Report post Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Stropping, what you are asking is a matter of personal taste --- I have two 90+ year old Singer treadles and all I did was give them a good cleaning and left them in their original condition. I think it gives them character, and I get a ton of compliments on the machines. I use them daily too, by the way... Yes but in the best interest of the machine what would be better ? If all machines cars and tools ect made out of metal was left to corrode and rust there would be no old stuff worth having,we would all have modern stuff and we all know how that is going,The thing is we like to leave vintage items in there current state because were told by antique dealers on tv it would of been worth more if you left it the way it was,but a lot of people would say, as long as they are usable and functioning correctly leave a lone it gives the person pleasure to look at, some thing that has still got all its history on it why take that away, and some people would say it looks tatty repaint,but what happens if every generation did the same me and you would not come across the old vintage stuff any more because it was not being prevented from rusting,I know that this is a little over the top but there`s some truth here,I don,t like to see good items perishing who does, and like you I don`t like to take away its history and its characteristics,Now I could say I like this the way it is so its mine and I will leave it this way,but If I wrote to singer and they told me we could restore your machine exactly the way it looked on the day and it would have the same paint job done exactly using the same paint and methods, and we have the original decor to go on at no cost to you ,would you for get about character and say go a head,I would.The thing is with this forum is for people to have there opinion and to help me make my mind up I don,t think there is a right or wrong way when it comes to the machine in question,like you say its down to personal taste,there`s reasons for and against here on both sides ,You know if there were no transfers to buy so I could not replace on the new paint job I would probably leave it,I think the decor gives it its vintage look, Edited January 27, 2015 by stropping Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tramps Leatherworking Report post Posted January 27, 2015 Yes but in the best interest of the machine what would be better ? If all machines cars and tools ect made out of metal was left to corrode and rust there would be no old stuff worth having,we would all have modern stuff and we all know how that is going,The thing is we like to leave vintage items in there current state because were told by antique dealers on tv it would of been worth more if you left it the way it was,but a lot of people would say, as long as they are usable and functioning correctly leave a lone it gives the person pleasure to look at, some thing that has still got all its history on it why take that away, and some people would say it looks tatty repaint,but what happens if every generation did the same me and you would not come across the old vintage stuff any more because it was not being prevented from rusting,I know that this is a little over the top but there`s some truth here,I don,t like to see good items perishing who does, and like you I don`t like to take away its history and its characteristics,Now I could say I like this the way it is so its mine and I will leave it this way,but If I wrote to singer and they told me we could restore your machine exactly the way it looked on the day and it would have the same paint job done exactly using the same paint and methods, and we have the original decor to go on at no cost to you ,would you for get about character and say go a head,I would.The thing is with this forum is for people to have there opinion and to help me make my mind up I don,t think there is a right or wrong way when it comes to the machine in question,like you say its down to personal taste,there`s reasons for and against here on both sides ,You know if there were no transfers to buy so I could not replace on the new paint job I would probably leave it,I think the decor gives it its vintage look, You asked for opinions and you are receiving them, I don't think anyone would suggest that you just leave a classic machine of any kind to just rust away --- if the mechanical/structural integrity of the machine is at risk, then by all means I would restore it... The machines I have were very well taken care of and required only a good cleaning --- the sphinx decals are still in very good condition, although somewhat worn... Good Luck with your choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stropping Report post Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) You asked for opinions and you are receiving them, I don't think anyone would suggest that you just leave a classic machine of any kind to just rust away --- if the mechanical/structural integrity of the machine is at risk, then by all means I would restore it... The machines I have were very well taken care of and required only a good cleaning --- the sphinx decals are still in very good condition, although somewhat worn... Good Luck with your choice. Yes and I agree with this comment well put, it is knowing when to restore and to what extent and if the restoration was going to be done as close to its originality, or restore to the persons own preference ,thank`s Edited January 27, 2015 by stropping Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stropping Report post Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) well,I think buy now its time I made my mind up what to do,Since this forum had started I have been given advice and other peoples opinions on what they would do, Some recommend they would leave it and save the original decor,and some say they would do a complete restoration,and some prefer to only touch up whats needed to do where there is no paint, Then there were the question weather its going to be for personal use or sell,this still would give different opinions. After listening to all comments and opinions I have decided to think on it for the while, And ask my self what was the first thing that came to me when I first seen this machine, Well, I bought it from a farm it was in a barn in the middle of no mans land,I turned up at the place in question and I seen two big burly persons standing there glaring at me I suppose I dressed and looked completely different from them,it could of been a Sean from chain saw massacre,not that there was a seen like that, but it gave me the feeling am I going to be walking out of here or am I going to be in the next pack of sausages, then I looked between the two people and asked is this the machine for sale,they answered yep and went back to more starring,god this gave me the creeps ,any way I soon for got where I was and started to relax and Excitement came in my head, then I thought I can not wait to clean that crap of this machine, then how does it function,so my first thoughts was this is not in bad condition and this has nice decor left on it even through the crap and grime,so maybe it should be left the way it is, what I need to do is give my self more time so i do not make a hast decision,Owe ye by the time I left we were nearly swapping telephone numbers,they were very nice people just cautious of outsiders, I must stress people do not end up in sausages,I have a vivid imagination Edited January 27, 2015 by stropping Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
