Leatherwork And Crypto Currencies

[Beaverslayer]

Hello all, It's been quite some time since I've been here on the forum, I do follow as much as I can on Facebook and Twitter though, and am impressed with all the new talent that is here.

The main reason I am not doing leatherwork any longer, is that my eyesight is not very good any longer and I also have trouble holding the tools in my old hands. I would dearly love to be able to not only pound leather but lace it all together like I used too.

The reason I am posting here in "Marketing and Advertising" is that for the last year or so I have been heavily involved in the Crypto Currency world. Bitcoin and many of the "Alt Coins" as they are called. Bitcoin has grown a great deal over the last year, and many new things have been created with Bitcoin being the reason.

I have envisioned a great marketing opportunity for all of you leatherworkers to at least consider as another way of increasing exposure and also sales of your work. Bitcoin is now widely accepted by many mainstream online (as well as brick and mortor) business's as a means of payment for goods and services. Even Microsoft accepts Bitcoins.

Now, some of you I imagin are thinking "Magical Internet Money" well in some respect, that's exactly what Bitcoin is, but it is real and it is money. Thousands of people every day are buying real things with it. The thing that I've found most interesting regarding Bitcoin as well as some of the other Altcoins (Dogecoin for example) is that people who have them are much more likely to buy something from a business that accepts Bitcoin than one that does not.

Now, Bitcoin can be a real headache to get involved in and can be quite confussing if you aren't very computer literate and all. But, as I said previously, things are changing. There is now a company that makes it all real simple, just like email and this forum. The company is called Xapo, and by opening an account with them, you nbow will have a Bitcoin wallet that you are able to accept and spend Bitcoins from. They also have a Bitcoin ATM card that you can get, and with this ATM card you are able to spend your Bitcoins just like you spend your cash with your bank ATM.

One of the really great features of Bitcoin, is the transaction costs. Basically they are non existant. A little over a month ago, there was a transfer of 81 MILLION US dollars worth of Bitcoins transfered in one transaction across the world. This transaction made financial history, as it only took 30 minutes in total time to complete. The most astounding thing about this transaction was, that it only cost FOUR CENTS to complete it. Phone your bank and ask them what it would cost and how long it would take to transfer that kind of money around the world, much less across the USA.

Okay then, here's my thinking on how you as leatherworkers can capitalize on the Bitcoin market.

#1: Open an Xapo account and create a Bitcoin wallet and order the ATM card. Here's is the link for them.

http://xapo.com/r/01LD3EW

#2: Set up a Twitter account and follow people that are also involved with Bitcoin and other crypto currencies.

https://twitter.com

#3: If you use Facebook, search for Bitcoin groups and "Like" or "Join" some of them.

Once you have done this, then you start to post pics of your work on Twitter and Facebook groups. Be sure to let everyone know that you accept Bitcoin as payment for your work. On Twitter when you post a pic of your work, be sure to add "Hash Tags" like #Bitcoin and #BTC, this will then link your pictures and tweets to anyone that is searching out Bitcoin or BTC. Just to give you an idea at how pwerful and usefull hash tags are, a little while ago a lady here in Calgary (where I live) posted a picture of a small dog she was elling for $15,000 she Tweeted that she was selling this dog and added the hashtag #ParisHilton to it. Within just a few minutes, Paris Hilton saw this Tweet and bought the dog. A month later Paris Hilton bought another dog off the same lady for $25,000....all because of a hashtag on a Twitter tweet.

I can imagine that some of you are still thinking "Magical Internet Money" still. Well, to give you an idea as to how big Bitcoin is getting, the Winklevoss twins (from Facebook fame) have heavily invested into Bitcoin and are almost ready to open an exchange that is tied into NASDAQ to trade Bitcoins. There are many many other companies that have had big investors put up hundreds of millions of dollars as startup capital for Bitcoin related companies.

Bitcoin is a viable alterantive to normal currency (Fiat) and this is the ground floor right now, just like back when email and AOL first came about.

If any of you decide that you are interested in this way of marketing your leatherwork and are not too sure as to how it all works, feel free to contact me and I will endeavor to help you out. If you are already on Twitter, follow me @Beaverslayer1 and I will retweet all of your pics to the Bitcoiners that I follow as well as help you out determining which ones to follow as well.

Thanks for your time reading this long post.

Beaverslayer

[Matt T]

I think crypto currencies are the future, BUT.. right now there is still a lot of risk in this space, without a whole lot of benefit to someone who isn't doing something illegal. The value of a bitcoin has fluctuated wildly, and has gradually decreased in value from around 1,000 to 283 today. Those large companies accepting bitcoin are not accumulating the coins; they are using exchanges to quickly convert them to another currency such as USD. The exchanges charge a fee for this service. The Xapo service you are affiliated with does not provide a mechanism for converting to another currency, aside from a debit card; which is not permitted for anyone in the USA.

[TwinOaks]

One FIAT currency is NOT a viable alternative to another FIAT currency. Before arguing that it is, be prepared to say what commodity is backing up the bitcoin.

[cgleathercraft]

If hindsight were foresight with a tiny investment of $100 USD (0.05 per coin) when bitcoin first started there was potential to have well into the millions ($1.9 Million +- ) IF sold at the right time. The ground floor for bitcoin, in my opinion, was between 2010 and 2012. After that the boom hit and the price skyrocketed. Now the market has been tarnished by several widely publicized seizures of sites dealing in various items and services that are illegal in nature. As a person who works in the tech sector in my day job and seeing the fluctuations of crackdowns by several governments getting ever more frequent I ---personally--- feel that bitcoin is not right for me. I"m not saying that it shouldn't be used, just I don't feel secure putting my money into such a virtual market. I agree with Matt T - the only viable way for me to get into ANY crypto currency is to be able to immediately convert it to USD and deposit it into my bank account.

The suggestions to use instagram/twitter/facebook/any social media, is an excellent idea and is sure to gain exposure and sales, even without the use of bitcoin.

I encourage someone to try and convince me otherwise, however, it took me a long time to pick up Etsy's card reader so I could accept cards on the go.

[rlpullman]

Bitcoin is a form of barter. There is no threat of Bitcoin or any other cyber currency replacing the U.S. dollar. That is because the IRS only accepts US dollars as payment for taxes. As long as the IRS only accepts US dollars, there will always be a demand for them.

[Beaverslayer]

I think crypto currencies are the future, BUT.. right now there is still a lot of risk in this space, without a whole lot of benefit to someone who isn't doing something illegal. The value of a bitcoin has fluctuated wildly, and has gradually decreased in value from around 1,000 to 283 today. Those large companies accepting bitcoin are not accumulating the coins; they are using exchanges to quickly convert them to another currency such as USD. The exchanges charge a fee for this service. The Xapo service you are affiliated with does not provide a mechanism for converting to another currency, aside from a debit card; which is not permitted for anyone in the USA.

Yes, at present time the Xapo service ATM is not available in the USA, but there are other companies that are available in the USA. The largest one is Coinbase. Coinbase is not just a Bitcoin exchange, but also a merchant gateway that will convert any Bitcoin transactions to US dollars at time of payment and transfer those dollars into your bank account within 2-3 days.

You are also correct in that these exchanges charge a fee to convert/trade your Bitcoins into fiat currency, but most exchanges fee is at most 0.25% (Coinbase is free up to the first $1,000,000.00 of transactions). Credit cards charge upwards of 3.0% of the transaction and we all know how much PayPal and Etsy and E-Bay charge.

With using Bitcoin as a payment "Option" you also do not have to worry of "Charge Backs" like you do with any credit card or PayPal, as once the payment is sent via Bitcoin, that is it...no charge back. If someone you sold an item to contacts PayPal and says that they didn't receive the item, PayPal will freeze your account and almost always side with the person saying they did not receive.

Bitcoin has also been used for nefarious endeavors (Silk Road drug/gun sales) but you have to admit that fiat currency has and always will be used for this type of purchase, Bitcoin is no different in that respect.

By using a Bitcoin service such as Coinbase, your exposure to the volatile price swings of Bitcoin are greatly reduced.

I am by no means saying drop everything and jump on the Bitcoin band wagon, what I am saying is, this is the ground floor and the millions of people who do use Bitcoin every day are more than likely to purchase a custom made leather product if they can use thier Bitcoins to do so.

[Beaverslayer]

One FIAT currency is NOT a viable alternative to another FIAT currency. Before arguing that it is, be prepared to say what commodity is backing up the bitcoin.

TwinOaks, first off, Bitcoin is in no way a "Fiat" currency, it is the farthest thing away from any fiat you can think of. Bitcoin is not backed by any commodity, nor is it backed by any Government, it is backed by the technology and the ecosystem that has developed around it over the last 5 years.

The US dollar is a "Fiat" currency and is NOT backed by ANY commodity either, it is backed by the Federal Reserve Bank and they at any time they so desire can and will just print more of it as they see fit. Bitcoin has a "Preset Mathematically determined" ammount that will ever be available. This ammount can never be changed or added to, unlike any Fiat currency.

As I said in my post above, Bitcoin is an alternative means of generating sales, with a viable and less costly way of payment compared to Fiat or credit card/PayPal type payments.

[Beaverslayer]

Bitcoin is a form of barter. There is no threat of Bitcoin or any other cyber currency replacing the U.S. dollar. That is because the IRS only accepts US dollars as payment for taxes. As long as the IRS only accepts US dollars, there will always be a demand for them.

According to the IRS Bitcoin is a "Commodity" and is taxable in the USA as a "Capital Gain" should you buy and sell them for profit/loss. In the stae of California, Bitcoin is classified as a "Currency".

Bitcoin will not replace US dollars or any other Fiat currency any time soon, but, it is a viable payment method that millions of people throughout the world are using every day to purchase goods and services with.

[cgleathercraft]

Well I've gained enough interest to poke around (about the same interest as the stock market) but haven't found the information i'm looking for. In order for me to consider Bitcoin as a possible form of payment I will need to be sure of a few things first.

1. Taxes. How would I go about reporting the income? What happens should I decide not to convert them to USD and simply pay with them? You mentioned California considers them currency and taxable but I don't want the IRS breathing down my neck for ANY reason. Bitcoin related or not.

2. Pricing. Do I price an item with Bitcoin or with USD? Bitcoin can jump or fall rather quickly. I'd rather not get into the issue of charging 1 coin for a project and during the time of construction the value takes a nose dive. The same would go for a project where the value goes up and the customer expects more even after payment (assuming payment comes up front)

3. Receiving of funds. Should I receive payment in this form it needs to be transferable to my bank account on the same or next business day. That's how it works with credit/debit cards and I see no reason why I should expect any different.

4. Security. Since the creation of Bitcoins their value has jumped from $0.05 USD to almost $980 USD then has fallen quite a bit. According to Google the current value is 229.28. This makes a big difference if I decided to accept the payment today but the value tanks tomorrow before I can get my money. Over the past 3 months the value of bitcoins has steadily dropped. Source: http://www.coindesk.com/price/.

5. Usage. Know of any providers that accept Bitcoin for leather supplies? If i'm receiving it for my work I might as well be able to buy the materials with it too. I like to keep my money separate that way i'm not jumping into the household income for leather and vice versa.

I'm not feeling that my already hard-to-come-by hard-earned money would be wisely invested in bitcoin.

For the record I feel the same about my 401K and company stock purchase plan. But I refuse to pull that money out and pay the huge tax penalty until I absolutely have to.

[Beaverslayer]

Well I've gained enough interest to poke around (about the same interest as the stock market) but haven't found the information i'm looking for. In order for me to consider Bitcoin as a possible form of payment I will need to be sure of a few things first.

1. Taxes. How would I go about reporting the income? What happens should I decide not to convert them to USD and simply pay with them? You mentioned California considers them currency and taxable but I don't want the IRS breathing down my neck for ANY reason. Bitcoin related or not.

2. Pricing. Do I price an item with Bitcoin or with USD? Bitcoin can jump or fall rather quickly. I'd rather not get into the issue of charging 1 coin for a project and during the time of construction the value takes a nose dive. The same would go for a project where the value goes up and the customer expects more even after payment (assuming payment comes up front)

3. Receiving of funds. Should I receive payment in this form it needs to be transferable to my bank account on the same or next business day. That's how it works with credit/debit cards and I see no reason why I should expect any different.

4. Security. Since the creation of Bitcoins their value has jumped from $0.05 USD to almost $980 USD then has fallen quite a bit. According to Google the current value is 229.28. This makes a big difference if I decided to accept the payment today but the value tanks tomorrow before I can get my money. Over the past 3 months the value of bitcoins has steadily dropped. Source: http://www.coindesk.com/price/.

5. Usage. Know of any providers that accept Bitcoin for leather supplies? If i'm receiving it for my work I might as well be able to buy the materials with it too. I like to keep my money separate that way i'm not jumping into the household income for leather and vice versa.

I'm not feeling that my already hard-to-come-by hard-earned money would be wisely invested in bitcoin.

For the record I feel the same about my 401K and company stock purchase plan. But I refuse to pull that money out and pay the huge tax penalty until I absolutely have to.

Regarding the taxes, I'm in no way capable of saying exactly how you would be taxed, as I am a Canadian and our tax laws are far different than yours and our version of the IRS are far more easy to get along with.

In regards to pricing, you would still price your goods in US dollars and by using a service such as Coinbase, the customer would be charged the equivalent amount of Bitcoin at time of checkout. This amount of Bitcoin would then be converted to US dollars within a few minutes so you would not be susceptible to any major price drop/rise of Bitcoin. Coinbase would then transfer the US dollars to your bank account.

As I've said above, if you use a service such as Coinbase (or any of a number of others available) the Bitcoins are converted to US dollars right away and this is then transfered to your bank just like any credit card service does. The difference being though, is that the credit card company/PayPal and such will charge you anywhere from 2% to 3.5% plus a transaction charge, where Coinbase for example only charges 0.1% I believe for the transfer to your bank, and there is no charge for the Bitcoin acceptance up to $1,000,000.00 US dollars.

As of yet, I do not know of any "Leather" suppliers that accept Bitcoin, just companies like Overstock and Amazon and a few others like them. Should a number of leather workers start to accept Bitcoin, then I would be available to try and get leather supply companies involved in Bitcoin as well.

When it comes to investing, I am not saying to "Invest" in Bitcoin or any of the many other "Altcoins" out there, as this is no different than playing the stock market, and unless you have big brass B's, and constantly watch the markets, Bitcoin is not the type of thing to invest in. I spend quite a bit of time "Day Trading" Altcoins and converting them to Bitcoins and this can tend to be almost like a full time job sometimes.

But as far as accepting Bitcoin as an alternative payment method, what I'm saying is there is a very good chance to open up a completely new market for active leatherworkers.

For example, when Dogecoin (an Alt Coin) was first introduced in December 2013, the Dogecoin community grew faster than any other on-line community in the history of the Internet in just over a month. They took it upon themselves to raise the necessary funds (via Dogecoin) donations to send the Jamaican Bobsled team to the Winter Olympics. They also raised large amounts for water wells in Africa. This in turn created a whole new market for Dogecoin related items, and people that had Dogecoins wanted to buy things that they could pay for with them. If the item had a picture of the Dogecoin logo on it, it was a sure fire sell.

I can see people that are involved with Bitcoin would be very inclined to buy a hand made wallet with the Bitcoin logo tooled on it, as the "Wallet" is a major part of the Bitcoin technology. Bitcoin belts would also be a big item, as well as Bitcoin key chains.