When To Stop Buffing?

[cldpsu]

Hey everyone,

I did a search and can't find a thread specific to how much buffing to do. On a recently dyed belt without a finish, no matter how much I buff with a soft cloth, I always get dye pigment on it. Is this normal and does one stop after a few minutes of buffing, comfortable that the surface excess has been removed? I don't really understand if I'm pulling out whats impregnated or if I'm still removing surface excess dye. It seems eternal.

[Northmount]

As long as dye is coming off onto you buffing rag, you are removing surface pigment.

Buff until just before your arm falls off, then go back to it again after a rest until a white rag stays clean.

Try a test sample, dilute your dye at least 50/50, let dry at least 8 hours between applications. Then buff it when you have colour built up to the level you wish.

Use a solvent compatible with your dye to dilute the dye.

What dye were you using? Knowing the dye you used may get some additional responses that are directly applicable to that type of dye. Also tell what your method of application was.

Tom

[cldpsu]

Thanks, Tom. This was with Fiebings Pro Oil. I'm new to all of this and may have applied neatsfoot oil before the initial buffing started, but I can't remember now. I'm not sure if that has any impact on it.

[cldpsu]

Oh and my method of application was with a dauber/sponge.

[cldpsu]

Can anyone chime in whether neatsfoot oil being applied before buffing could cause a never ending attempt to buff out the dye? I'm not exactly sure what's considered normal in terms of excess being buffed out. Here's a labor pic.

[Northmount]

Have you used two colours of dye? Looks darker in the pic in a couple places. If this is not two-tone, then I would guess that you have too much NF oil in the dark areas and it is probably lifting the dye as it bleeds out.

NF oil should be applied sparingly, and wait 8 hours or more to see that it levels/spreads out evenly. I see from other posts that some oil the leather lightly before applying dye, and others oil after the dye has dried to replace some of the natural oils that are lost during the dye process. Helps to make the leather more supple again.

If you have too much oil, the leather also goes mushy. Bury it in cornstarch or kitty litter for a week to absorb the excess if this is what has happened.

Tom

[cldpsu]

Don't think I have too much oil. It's two-toned for sure. I guess I'll keep buffing, haha. Those cloths are all from the belt. Is this a normal amount rubbed off that you see in the pic?

[texback]

I'm with Tom.......looks like you may have over oiled the belt or have not waited long enough for the oil to even out if you are getting that much rub off. I dye my pieces, wait 24 hrs, buff and never get that kind of rub off. Then apply a light coat of oil with a rag, wait 24 hrs and buff again, only getting very light if any rub off. I use Fiebing's pro oil black and brown quite a bit. How did you apply the neatsfoot oil?

Edited March 10, 2015 by texback

[cldpsu]

I applied it with a soft polishing cloth that you get from cobbler shops. It doesn't feel mushy as Tom said it might, but perhaps I should bury it in corn starch or something like he said. Maybe I did over oil but it's not mushy, but I understand what you guys are saying about waiting enough for it to even/level/spread out. I know Fiebing's Resolene is good but I'm annoyed at myself and would hate to just conceal all this excess dye with the topcoat that probably won't even adhere well to the grain but rather the excess dye.

Is it right to think then that over oiling causes a deep saturation that ends up penetrating under the dye and then pushes the dye out of the belt? Nothing is really trivial with this stuff. I'm fascinated by all of it, despite my mistakes.

So, to conclude, would the course of action to remedy this be burying it in cornstarch and then hopefully buffing out excess dye and then top coating it? Or will the burying cause the leather to be dry once again and require a light coat of oil?

[Northmount]

Let it dry another day and then go at it again and see if you are still getting never-ending rub off.

Tom

[NVLeatherWorx]

I too use the oil dyes and NF Oil but I only use PURE NF Oil as the compound can give you issues. I always do my oil first (apply evenly and just enough to sit on the surface) and then let it sit for about 8 hours and check to see that it is evening out. After 24 hours I will apply another coating of oil (lighter) and follow the check procedure and let it set up for another 24 hours. I buff the oiled leather to test for any take-off of oil (shouldn't be any but if there is then you know you need to "desaturate" it if you can"). If the buffing produces a clean take then I apply my dye and let it penetrate for 24 hours. If it needs another dye application then I apply it and let it set for 24 hours. Once set, I buff off the residue and then seal it with a 50/50 of Resolene and water. I do my oil process first because it gives the dye a more consistent look versus just dyeing the un-oiled leather which allows you the opportunity to apply less dye and prevents you from over-saturating your leather with the dye (which can cause it dry out, shrink, and a few other issues). Keep us posted on how it goes for you.

[cldpsu]

I too use the oil dyes and NF Oil but I only use PURE NF Oil as the compound can give you issues. I always do my oil first (apply evenly and just enough to sit on the surface) and then let it sit for about 8 hours and check to see that it is evening out. After 24 hours I will apply another coating of oil (lighter) and follow the check procedure and let it set up for another 24 hours. I buff the oiled leather to test for any take-off of oil (shouldn't be any but if there is then you know you need to "desaturate" it if you can"). If the buffing produces a clean take then I apply my dye and let it penetrate for 24 hours. If it needs another dye application then I apply it and let it set for 24 hours. Once set, I buff off the residue and then seal it with a 50/50 of Resolene and water. I do my oil process first because it gives the dye a more consistent look versus just dyeing the un-oiled leather which allows you the opportunity to apply less dye and prevents you from over-saturating your leather with the dye (which can cause it dry out, shrink, and a few other issues). Keep us posted on how it goes for you.

1. With the first neatsfoot coat, if it's not evening out after ~8 hours, do you add a little more in certain areas before waiting the full 24 to add a second coat?

2. Do you ever buff between dye coats to see that it's even everywhere before applying another coat?

3. What do you use to apply your neatsfoot oil? Or Lexol conditioner if you ever use that? I'm getting some of that in the mail from Springfield, but the neatsfoot oil I have is compound : ( I have a dense sponge I like for the 50/50 Resolene.

Thanks everyone for your replies. I really appreciate this ongoing help.

Edited March 11, 2015 by cldpsu

[NVLeatherWorx]

1. With the first neatsfoot coat, if it's not evening out after ~8 hours, do you add a little more in certain areas before waiting the full 24 to add a second coat?

2. Do you ever buff between dye coats to see that it's even everywhere before applying another coat?

3. What do you use to apply your neatsfoot oil? Or Lexol conditioner if you ever use that? I'm getting some of that in the mail from Springfield, but the neatsfoot oil I have is compound : ( I have a dense sponge I like for the 50/50 Resolene.

Thanks everyone for your replies. I really appreciate this ongoing help.

I always let it sit for the 24 hours so that it has more than enough time to set, if you try and speed up the process you can find yourself over applying it really easily. After it has set I am looking for a slightly darker (and I mean very slight) hue to the natural leather, if I see that it has taken on this light "tanning" then I go to the dye stage. If not, then the second lighter coating gets put on and the same follow up process is used.

By dyeing the leather after the oil has been applied and set I have found that it is rare that a second dye application is needed, but in those rare circumstances where it is needed I just apply it over the previous application (no buffing) and allow it to set for the full time frame. I only buff after the final application has been applied.

I use either a large dauber or sheep's wool to apply my oil and, as stated before, only use the Pure NF Oil, the compound and some of those other blends (Lexol as well) have chemical compounds as part of the blend and it does not always play well with dyes/finishes. Not to mention, the chemicals can cause the leather to dry out more rapidly as they don't truly condition the leather with the oils and elements that it needs after handling. I too use a closed cell (very dense) sponge to apply my Resolene blend and I always dampen it lightly first so that the acrylic in the blend doesn't try to dry out too fast (after all, it has been reduced by 50 percent now and it goes on much thinner which allows it start setting almost instantly).

Hope this helps a bit.

[cldpsu]

I always let it sit for the 24 hours so that it has more than enough time to set, if you try and speed up the process you can find yourself over applying it really easily. After it has set I am looking for a slightly darker (and I mean very slight) hue to the natural leather, if I see that it has taken on this light "tanning" then I go to the dye stage. If not, then the second lighter coating gets put on and the same follow up process is used.

By dyeing the leather after the oil has been applied and set I have found that it is rare that a second dye application is needed, but in those rare circumstances where it is needed I just apply it over the previous application (no buffing) and allow it to set for the full time frame. I only buff after the final application has been applied.

I use either a large dauber or sheep's wool to apply my oil and, as stated before, only use the Pure NF Oil, the compound and some of those other blends (Lexol as well) have chemical compounds as part of the blend and it does not always play well with dyes/finishes. Not to mention, the chemicals can cause the leather to dry out more rapidly as they don't truly condition the leather with the oils and elements that it needs after handling. I too use a closed cell (very dense) sponge to apply my Resolene blend and I always dampen it lightly first so that the acrylic in the blend doesn't try to dry out too fast (after all, it has been reduced by 50 percent now and it goes on much thinner which allows it start setting almost instantly).

Hope this helps a bit.

Definitely helps a lot. I buried the belt in some corn starch for 12 hours and it didn't seem to do much. Maybe I'll try kitty litter for a week, haha. Is it possible there's no remedy?

On a different note, something's happened with these two belts in the dyeing process. I'll add that I used gum trag on the back of the belt before dyeing, but I can assure you that it didn't spill on the front of the belt. It almost looks like the grain is damaged.

Edited March 16, 2015 by cldpsu

[grmnsplx]

Is it possible you got glue on it?

[cldpsu]

I don't think so. I was really careful, no glue around, extremely clean surface wiped down on several occasions. The only thing it could be is gum trag and I checked repeatedly and never saw it on the grain side.

Edited March 16, 2015 by cldpsu

[cldpsu]

I forgot that it persists even after taking a qtip with deglazer to the affected areas and then redyeing another coat on the belt.

[Mark Peters]

I hope this isn't hijacking the thread. I too have been trying to determine how much buffing is needed. I've followed the advice to buff until no dye is lifted by the buffing cloth. I've been using paper towels and turning frequently.

However, when I subsequently apply either neatsfoot oil or a sealer (I've tried resolene, tan kote and super sheen) the applicator comes away heavily soiled with dye. It is particularly bad with fieblings ox blood.

Is this normal or is just an indicator that I stopped buffing too soon?

Thank you for the help.