Amazing tooled, handstitched rawhide thing

[UKRay]

I have been looking at this thing for almost a year at my local antiques (junk) market but as I felt it was very highly priced (£30) and the dealer wasn't moving on it I was unable to take a really close look. Today was cold and wet and I must have hit the right psychological moment as I finally picked this thing up for my offer of £5 - about $7.50 US

I really don't know what it is although I have a few ideas, i'm hoping one of you guys may have seen something like it before. It is very nicely and very neatly hand tooled and hand stitched and seems to have a wooden or cork 'stopper' pushed down inside - I am loathe to poke about too much in case I damage it.

The important thing to note is that this is EXTREMELY well made. I reckon it would hold water - although how that would go down with rawhide I simply don't know - can anyone tell me?

You can get an idea of size from my hand. It measures almost exactly 9" from end to end and the 'hole' is between 1/2" and 3/4" diameter.

But what is it?

Some of the ideas I have already been offered include:

powder flask

a 'drench' bottle for administering medicine to animals

a scribe's sand container

Does anyone know?

[Todd]

I have one that is almost identical that I picked up at an estate sale, except it has no tooling on it. Mine is a black powder flask and it also has a braided leather strap that attaches to the ring and worn around the neck or doubled up and worn through a belt

[celticleather]

Ray - This is almost certainly a Turkish or Afghan powder/shot flask, made from a camel's scrotum! I guess it would have originally had some kind of brass(?) nozzle or plug.

Now go and wash your hands!

[UKRay]

Ray - This is almost certainly a Turkish or Afghan powder/shot flask, made from a camel's scrotum! I guess it would have originally had some kind of brass(?) nozzle or plug.Now go and wash your hands!

I can barely type for laughing! Sadly, I don't think you are right as a camel's scrotum is much bigger than that - and don't bother to ask me how I know! In addition, the tooling goes right to the end of the 'nozzle' and there are no marks that would suggest something is missing.

Any more amusing suggestions?

I have one that is almost identical that I picked up at an estate sale, except it has no tooling on it. Mine is a black powder flask and it also has a braided leather strap that attaches to the ring and worn around the neck or doubled up and worn through a belt

Could you post a picture please, Todd?

Edit due to ROFL...

Edited November 16, 2008 by UKRay

[celticleather]

Maybe a baby camel? I'm not exactly a scrota afficionado, so I'll bow to your greater knowledge!

[pete]

definitaly "scroticus camelieus" bacterin and 7-800 lbs with a left hind navicular problem.

[Drac]

powder horn fron india or similar area. my grandfather has a couple that are very similar including the design work, except his are metal. he even has the flintlocks to go along with them.

[UKRay]

Maybe a baby camel? I'm not exactly a scrota afficionado, so I'll bow to your greater knowledge!

You are most kind, sir, now has anyone else got any ideas?

To be honest, I am not completely convinced by the idea it is a powder flask as I have never seen another one like it but I confess I haven't had much experience with items made from rawhide either - has anyone ever tried tooling rawhide?

Have any of you black powder shooters ever seen a rawhide flask before?

[Hidemechanic]

For this particular example I have a hard time thinking it is for powder, sand for scribes maybe, but the inside is too rough (imo) for powder. Also, the spout would need to be shorter and bigger around or powder would tend to jam up.

I would be more inclined to think this would be a ball pouch for long guns, though I build them of similar design I still have a problem with the length of the neck.

So far I vote for the scribes.GH

[UKRay]

powder horn fron india or similar area. my grandfather has a couple that are very similar including the design work, except his are metal. he even has the flintlocks to go along with them.

Many thanks for your ideas, Drac, but the operative words for me here are "his are metal" just like all the others I have ever seen from that part of the world. Has anyone seen any rawhide work from India? In addition, when I look closely (closer than those pictures and using a magnifying glass) the workmanship doesn't look overwhelmingly Indian to me -but the more I look at it the more I see how beautifully it was made.

This was obviously made by someone with a lot of time on their hands and considerable skill. It would have been an expensive thing to buy. The central pattern on either side is tiny leaves whilst the body of the thing has a 'vine and bunches of grapes' design tooled onto it. Each section is separated by a geometric design made up of tiny diamonds. Every inch of the thing is tooled.

The hand stitching is around 18 to the inch and looks like a linen thread. The only bit of metalwork is the shackle which doesn't really match the rest of the item - it looks poorly made and could easily be a later addition or replacement.

[Luke Hatley]

Ray i have seen a lot of Powder flask before. But if this was made for carrying powder it is a very different kind.

I WOULD GUESS IT IS OF TURKISH HISTORY TO CARRY HORSES MILK IN.

[UKRay]

Ray i have seen a lot of Powder flask before. But if this was made for carrying powder it is a very different kind.

I WOULD GUESS IT IS OF TURKISH HISTORY TO CARRY HORSES MILK IN.

I'd not argue with you, Luke, but how would a rawhide bottle react to a liquid like mare's milk? It is my understanding that it would go very limp and soggy... but I don't know for sure.

I just managed to get what I thought was the stopper out from inside the bottle - it was a just a crumbling piece of leather - I guess it could have been a stopper at one time. The leather was so old it literally fell to pieces as I shook the bottle - I guess this thing may be a lot older than I first thought.

Edited November 16, 2008 by UKRay

[whinewine]

Ray:

Not being an art student, I (obviously) don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but to venture a guess like everyone else, the designs appear very 'Moorish' in style, such as one would see on various buildings in those areas of Spain that had a lot of Moorish influence.

I would opt for powder or shot flask.

I would also tend to believe it's leather, rather than rawhide: I know rawhide can be molded, but I don't know if it can be tooled. Anybody?

russ

[Luke Hatley]

IF THE RAWHIDE I DRYED ON THE DESERT IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME TO BE WET FROM THE MILK.

"HEY ASK SOME EASY QUESTIONS"..........

[UKRay]

Ray:

Not being an art student, I (obviously) don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but to venture a guess like everyone else, the designs appear very 'Moorish' in style, such as one would see on various buildings in those areas of Spain that had a lot of Moorish influence.

I would opt for powder or shot flask.

I would also tend to believe it's leather, rather than rawhide: I know rawhide can be molded, but I don't know if it can be tooled. Anybody?

russ

Hi Russ, the material is approx 1/16" thick, translucent, hard as heck and feels just like a dog chew which is why I thought it had to be rawhide - I couldn't argue about the vaguely Moorish look. It could just as easily be Spanish I suppose. I did wonder if it was a shot flask - but surely you wouldn't want a hard flask (and this thing is really hard - I reckon I could stand on it without damaging the thing) to carry soft lead shot - they would rattle around and make a fearful noise - and could easily get damaged or misshapen. What do I know?

I don't do easy questions, Luke!

[Jordan]

It's part of a set of hospital urinal/bedpan for patients with incredibly good aim.

[Timbo]

Maybe its a cold camel scrotum and if you warm it up it will get bigger!!!!

Tim

[TwinOaks]

Say, isn't that Barbara Eden's old house?

I don't have a clue as to what it was/is, but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't rifle/pistol shot flask....unless it was never used. My reasoning for this is that the inside looks completely clean- in the pic where you can see in the mouth of it, there doesn't appear to be the slightest amount of lead fouling.

Another thing to check out is to see if that's an iron or a steel ring on it. That could be a good indicator, as well as the style of blacksmithing.

I haven't seen it suggested yet, so I'll also throw in the possibility that it's one of Johanna's "use up the scrap" projects from her early days that somehow found it's way across the pond.

[UKRay]

Say, isn't that Barbara Eden's old house?

I don't have a clue as to what it was/is, but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't rifle/pistol shot flask....unless it was never used. My reasoning for this is that the inside looks completely clean- in the pic where you can see in the mouth of it, there doesn't appear to be the slightest amount of lead fouling.

Another thing to check out is to see if that's an iron or a steel ring on it. That could be a good indicator, as well as the style of blacksmithing.

I haven't seen it suggested yet, so I'll also throw in the possibility that it's one of Johanna's "use up the scrap" projects from her early days that somehow found it's way across the pond.

It is as clean as a whistle inside, Mike - no trace of anything dirty ever having been in there. I touched a file to the metalwork and my best guess is soft iron - not steel. It is fairly rough on the inside so Hidemechanic may have a good point about it not being suitable for powder - and looking down the hole, I'd say there are no traces of anything ever having been inside at all - so what the heck is it?

Johanna? Nah, I've seen her handbag and this really isn't her style at all. LOL

As for the laddish grubbiness from Timbo and Jordan... Well I'm just shocked and surprised at the pair of you!

[Windy]

After studying the hieroglyphics carefully , I can tell you that it

belonged to the King of Persia long ago in a time we will

never understand. The purpose of the container is to hold

a multitude of balls with numbers on them. When the King

could not make up his mind which one of his harem he wished

to partake in carnal knowledge with him that night he would

simply shake the container, then poor out the lucky womans

number.

WINDY

[UKRay]

After studying the hieroglyphics carefully , I can tell you that it

belonged to the King of Persia long ago in a time we will

never understand. The purpose of the container is to hold

a multitude of balls with numbers on them. When the King

could not make up his mind which one of his harem he wished

to partake in carnal knowledge with him that night he would

simply shake the container, then poor out the lucky womans

number.

WINDY

Easily the best answer to date - Windy is definitely in the lead!

Any advance on the king of Persia?

[tonyc1]

It could be Cornucopia, the Horn of Plenty, after the financial crash!

Tony.

[Daggrim]

I think you have a zero-g urinal which was left behind by ancient astronauts. You might laugh, but never underestimate some people's gullibility. Much more has been extrapolated from much less. Dag

[TwinOaks]

Since we're off into the realm of the fantastical....

Maybe it's what Old Toodles kept his marbles in.....reach for it....really old story....

Or what somebody kept marbles in.

[Beaverslayer]

There's a real good chance that this guy may be looking for it though....

Ken