Pricing For Tooling Only

[becbec91]

Hello everyone, I have come across a question that I don't know how to find the answer.

I have quite a few people from all over the US wanting to send me their leather for me to tool it. I have no idea how to charge them for this. So far I have two different leather workers interested in me tooling their work. Can you help me figure out how to give them a price? One guy wants an idea before i get started. Thanks!

[NVLeatherWorx]

First of all, if other "leather workers" are asking to contract you for the tooling of their items then they aren't really leather workers. Second of all, how much is your time worth and what is your background? If you have an extensive background in the art and have invested your life into learning the craft from top to bottom then you need to look at your time as a professional would and charge appropriately. This is especially important when you look at the fact that you are being contracted to do this work for someone else who doesn't have the skill set to do the work themselves (otherwise they wouldn't be asking in the first place). Another thing to consider is making sure that your work, the tooling, is given proper credit on the finished item and to make sure that the "leather worker" who is making the sale isn't selling it off as their work. You need to have your mark, whatever it may be, on the artistic elements of the leather and if the "leather worker" doesn't go for it then it would be a good time for them to actually learn how to be a real leather worker.

I know it sounds a bit harsh but there are way too many "leather workers" out there that have no experience, background, or creativity and when any one of us who actually know what the term of leather worker means does any work for them all we are doing is feeding the myth of their existence and it has to stop somewhere. There should be nobody calling themselves a leather worker or Master Craftsman that doesn't know this trade and art inside out and that includes the art of saddle making and other highly disciplined skill sets within the trade. If it is just a hobby for people then fine, but don't be asking skilled craftsmen to be doing work for you, learn what is takes to do the work or please find another hobby.

To directly answer your question, I wouldn't take on the work in the first place but for those that do, and have the skill set to do it professionally, I wouldn't suggest you do it for less than $25.00 per per hour (to be tracked and billed as the project progresses) and the recipient is responsible for ALL shipping charges, providing ALL materials, and ALL artwork/layout designs are provided in ready-to-use format. And most important of all, if any of the requested tooling consists of ANY logo, trademarked item, or brand name, there must be written authorization from the owner of the trademark, logo, etc. authorizing its use for the purpose. Tough world we live in today but nothing is worth getting your butt in a sling over violating a copyright or trademark law.

[becbec91]

As I understand it there are leather"workers" and leather"crafters". One of the men I spoke with has been making and selling tack(minus saddles) for 17 years. (Reins, bridles, halters, spur straps, chaps, etc) and contracted out his tooling so he could spend more time on the making and the other guy spend the time on the tooling. His tooling partner recently passed away. I'm not looking to put down anyone trying to learn this hobby, as I am still learning myself. And if someone entrust me and my current skill set with their work (and my mark) I have no problem helping them and also broadening my horizons. I was just wondering what different people charge for tooling only, to get an idea of what a fair price would be.

[SantaFeMarie]

"First of all, if other "leather workers" are asking to contract you for the tooling of their items then they aren't really leather workers. "

I have to disagree. There are plenty of fully-professional leather workers who make exquisite items who don't do any tooling and have never bothered to learn it because not because they are lazy amateurs but because it doesn't suit their esthetic. If they have a customer who wants to commission, say, a messenger bag from them, but they want their name, the Harley-Davidson logo, and some Sheridan-style flowers added to it, there is nothing wrong with the professional saying "that isn't really my thing but I'll see if I can find someone to do it for you".

[Chief31794]

"First of all, if other "leather workers" are asking to contract you for the tooling of their items then they aren't really leather workers. " I have to disagree. There are plenty of fully-professional leather workers who make exquisite items who don't do any tooling and have never bothered to learn it because not because they are lazy amateurs but because it doesn't suit their esthetic. If they have a customer who wants to commission, say, a messenger bag from them, but they want their name, the Harley-Davidson logo, and some Sheridan-style flowers added to it, there is nothing wrong with the professional saying "that isn't really my thing but I'll see if I can find someone to do it for you".

I have to disagree with this, X2 on NVLeatherWorx comments. Sewing a bag or cutting a strip of leather off of a bend does not make a leather worker. Just my $.02 worth.

Chief

Edited April 5, 2015 by Chief31794

[becbec91]

I don't see the point in arguing peoples opinions. Everyone has one, and I understand the principal is important to the craft and i value all of your input. However its not going to change the situation I am in, the grammar i used, the work i have to do, or answer the question I have asked

[SantaFeMarie]

I'm trying to understand what you are saying. Do you really mean that if you make this you are a leather worker:

But if you make this you are not?

[becbec91]

Santafe, i think both take a specific knowledge base that someone off the street doesn't know. But i guess you are asking that to the other people commenting here?

[Troy Burch]

I see no difference in commissioning out the tooling verses hiring someone to work in your shop to do tooling. There are plenty of shops that hire leather workers of different talents for their certain expertise and the logos of each individuals don't get stamped on the project. As far as what to charge theres no book such as mechanics have to tell how many hours a project should take and the hourly rate to charge, so you'll probly have to figure that out yourself.

[Europeanleather]

It shouldn't matter because its just a title.. both require a great deal of skill at its highest level. Out of curiosity those who make bags, wallets, wrist straps professionally what are they called?

On the business side if I was to get this done from you I would get a quote on how long it would take and a base per hour charge. There is no wrong way of pricing only one that you prefer to work with. Another way this can be done is charging based on the size of the design and the level of detail.

An extra per hour charge for design ideas is needed too.

[biglew]

I make watchbands and small leather goods for a major company... we are called Leather Artisans

[camano ridge]

becbec, back to your original question. Are they going to be sending you completed project to tool (this might be difficult to do) or are they sending you the pieces to be tooled then assembled by them after tooling? I would have to agree with LVN in that I would not charge less then $25.00 per hour. More if you have to do any of the designing or layout. Are they going to do any dying antiquing etc.?

[joe59]

A rule of thumb that I use, whether "tooling" my work or work that I've been commissioned to "tool" is $50 per flower. A flower consists of the flower, one leaf or bud and the stems. I do have a hard time charging for my art work because I have a tendency to spend too much time trying to perfect my drawing and pattern work up. Basket stamp or geometric stamps on chap yokes, for example, is roughly $75 per pair. Border stamping on yokes would be between $25 and $35 per pair.

JOE

[JLSleather]

I don't know if anyone can give you a realistic answer without knowing what "tooling" you'd be doing. I don't have a problem with the IDEA, though. "SUBbing out" the tooling is no different than contracting someone to click out parts, or do the stitching.

That said, it wouldn't make much sense for them to purchase leather, pay to have it shipped to them, and then pay again to ship it to you. Only way the leather would LEGITIMATELY come from them is if they have the dies and are going to click out (pre-cut) the parts for what they need (and then you tool) OR if they already have a substantial amount of leather they are wanting to use. Otherwise, it's both cost- and time-efficient to simply order the leather to ship to you.

Which brings up another question. IF they are supplying the leather, does that influence your pricing? I would personally charge MORE to work with cheap leather than to craft the "good stuff". Particularly if my name is going on it anywhere.

I NEVER pay anyone by the hour. Don't care who it is we're talking about. Basically, by the hour means that the SLOW guy - even if he means well - is paid more than the efficient guy. Which doesn't make sense. At all. If I'm buying leather goods, I pay for the PIECE, not the time.

Granted, all of this is MY thoughts. You can do or not do what you like without me being either offended or impressed - either way. Just thinkin' out loud ......

[chriscraft]

I NEVER pay anyone by the hour. Don't care who it is we're talking about. Basically, by the hour means that the SLOW guy - even if he means well - is paid more than the efficient guy. Which doesn't make sense. At all. If I'm buying leather goods, I pay for the PIECE, not the time.

This is why I'm having the same issue on my tooling charge. I am not well known and have not been carving/tooling leather for a long time. I consider myself slow at tooling when tackling new designs as I don't want to make any mistakes. I can not see myself charging by the hour unless I'm asking below minimum wage and who wants to do that. If I am tooling a repeat pattern I have already done, then I can work a little faster since I'm already familiar with said piece.

If your designs will be standard designs. I would recommend that you do a few practice runs of these patterns you will be contracted to make. That way you will see just how long it will take you to complete one and get a feel for a few of them. You could then set your price accordingly. As long as you are satisfied with what you get paid.

If you are just a hired gun, then I can understand why they would not want you to place your maker's mark on the work. Just like I can understand why you didn't mention who contacted you for such work. If you don't have any control on the finished product, like materials used, why would you want your name on it anyway.

I wish they made a pricing guide for "Leather Tooling" like they did for sign painters/pinstripers. Troy mentioned the auto mechanic job repair time guide. It would be great to even know just how long it should take to complete some tooling projects. At least a ball park figure would be nice. That way some one like myself can see just how fast one needs to be. Not just in speed but accuracy.

[cgleathercraft]

If we just look at charging for your work - By the hour for random, special pieces, and design work. For multiples of a single item with the same or near same tooling; the work can be done on a flat rate of per piece or by x number of pieces per hour.

As for contracting out work - I'd love to be busy enough to hire someone to take a portion of the work. They would get the basic time consuming jobs(cutting, stitching, edging, finishing) of stock items while I did the custom work.