chip carving on leather

[Spence]

Why the hell is he still around ?

He has never contributed anything constructive.

He's single-handedly killed the desire for newcomers to show their work for critique or advice.

There's millions of lesser forums that he could migrate his happy ass to.

[terrahyd]

LEATHER ROO THANKS FOR SHARING YOUR WORK WITH US ,,,WHAT YOU TRIED WAS NEET,,AS YOU SAID YOU MAY NOT DO MORE AND THATS UP TO YOU..THOUGHT ABOUT DOING IT MYSELF ONCE,,HANG IT ON THE WALL WITH OTHER THINGS YOU THOUGH OF AND TRIED ,,(YOU WALK BLIND LEST YOU KNOW FROM WHITCH YOU CAME ) ....MY WALL IS GETTEN KIND'A FULL,,BEST TO YOU ,,Doc....

[rickeyfro]

Slick, do you ever get as tired of hearing what youve got to say as the rest of us do????????????

Oh dear, did I stir up a bunch of tincan knights to ride to the lady's defense. I believe the lady posted on here to get honest reactions. And I gave one. So what is the problem with that? The way you all come on, a person would think you know little or nothing about leatherwork through the ages. Basically what she did there is a geometric pattern which is about as old of a leatherworking decoration method as you can get once mankind progressed past painting simple depictions of nature on hides. Most all of the Moorish leatherwork is of a geometric desgn due to religious constrictions. As was their woodwork, where much of the roots of chip carving in wood lie. Those Moorish designs are also the root of where many of the tools we term "geometric" come from. Every element of her design can be found in leather stamps. The flower is nothing special, it is just the reverse of a McMillen pattern from the old days, and the triangles are to be found as a segment of other McMillen geometric stamps. See attachment. Peter is somewhat correct is saying I couldn't ptoduce the effect with conventional tooling. That is true since I would have to take a modeling tool and screw up the impressions some to make it as uneven and primitive as hers is. But I could produce an even and much more attractive representation of the design with stamping tools

Actually, I find it kind of amusing as I see some of the folks replying to this thread, are the same ones who went on and on about how they have to use high dollar custom basketweaves and other geometrics to produce that "crisp" impression and then they turn around and slam me for pointing out that this looks "primitive". Go soak your heads!

My point was and still remains: that the product of the lady's effort was not worth the time to produce it. I have been an admirer of many differant styles of wood carving since I was a small boy. I was born overseas in Afghanistan, and when my family returned to the States we brought many examples of Afghan and Indian craftwork home with us. Some of the woodcarved item would be classified as primitive but each still has an intrinsic beauty and is a fine example of what a man can do with simple tools. As for tooling leather by using a knife to incise a design into the leather; been there, tried that.....a long time ago. Several problems with the process besides the factor of it weakening the leather. The leather has to relatively thick for much of an effect. Knives have to be razor sharp, and even then, are still difficult to control. Leather has to be fastened down since the force used is a sideways one. And when you are all done, still not so attractive. It is not real hard to see why such a process has not "caught on". This lady was not the first to try this, and I am sure I wasn't the first. I wasn't putting the artist down here, I was just saying I think the process is not very workable for leather. I have eyes to see and most of her work is very admirable. Her dragon motorcycle seat was vey impressive. This doesn't fall in that category.

Then there seems to be some opinions that I don't know art or have no appreciation for "thinking outside the box."

I realize that some people think Andy Warhol's painting of a Campbell soup can is fine art, but I will take a Leonardo or a Renoir anyday over that kind of stuff. Picasso? Hah, I think the guy's brain was addled by too much Madeira.

LOL While I'm on the subject of appraising work by an artist, I see some leatherwork on here that is praised as good when it is actually as bad or worse then some 9 year olds first effort. There's nothing wrong with encouragement, but then there is no value in praise for it's own sake. In fact I would say it is harmful to praise something that is unworthy.

[MikeCahill]

Slick, do you ever get as tired of hearing what youve got to say as the rest of us do????????????

by starting the thread Roo was inviting comment, Slick made his comments and is entitled to his opinion. His comments didn't seem to be a personal attack on Roo to me, abrupt maybe but he wasn't getting at her, I haven't read any of his other posts, so I don't know if there is a back story, and I don't know if his comments will deter other people from posting, but some of the responses are rude to the point of bullying. in a flame war everybody loses. I would like to think that I could give an honest opinion without facing the sort of attack that he has been subjected to.

cheers

Mike

[Spence]

Mike, it would be a very good idea if you were to read ALL of his other comments.

[MikeCahill]

Mike, it would be a very good idea if you were to read ALL of his other comments.

I've looked at a random selection of his past posts, and It seems to me that he can be a bit of a Grumpy B******* and calls a spade a spade without thinking if the way he's phrased something could be upsetting, or rude, but there doesn't seem to be any malice. He also looks to have a lot of experience in leatherwork, and has a lot to offer the rest of us, tact is not one of them, but however rude his posts are it still doesn't justify a personal attack.

cheers

mike

end of topic for me, I've had my tupenceworth

[Denise]

We can all learn more and we can all learn from anyone, if we are willing to look hard enough. Personal attacks are not what LW.net is about, and neither instigating nor participating in them looks good on anyone. I'm not saying it has to be warm, happy, fuzzy, hug time around here all the time. Disagreements let us see sides to an issue we many never have considered. But lets talk about the subject or other people with respect. Then we can all learn and perhaps see things from a different angle than we would have come up with by ourselves.

[MikeCahill]

i have often admired chip carved woodwork and wondered if it could be applied to leather....so i bought a chip carving knife this morning, watched a few youtube videos and set knife to leather.... i think the results maybe worth exploring a bit more...and a lot more practice!!

this is what i produced one hour later.... i really wanted to burnish the little triangles but couldnt work out how to do it....anyway just a quick practice piece.

Although it isn't the same as chip carving, the traditional way of decorating the dancing clogs of Yorkshire and Lancashire (England) was to carve a design into the leather of the upper before forming the upper on a last .Designs were often flowers or geometric shapes and patterns no attempt (as far as I am aware) was ever made at making the design stand out by hammering backgrounds and if it had, a lot of the effect would have been lost when the leather was stretched over the Last, but I have seen whitening rubbed into the grooves to make the design stand out. (Lets see if I can add a photo!) The tool used is called a race, not an American Racer which is a push tool but an English race. which is a pull tool held like a pen

[WyomingSlick]

Yes, now that is effort well worthwhile. The tool sounds much like the gouge that Tandy sold in the 70's for gouging thick lines in Nature-Tan leather for the folks into nature designs (see attachment). It was also used by a pulling action to make the gouge. I used to have one but I guess one of my students must have borrowed it permanently.

Now for some reflections on how this thread has gone. Okay, I will admit that I was not at my most tactful and diplomatic self when I responded to the opening post. That does not change my opinion of the matter. I would not have responded so if I was looking at the work of one of my child students. I was under the impression that I was dealing with adults. Certainly, her other work displayed the skill and great artistic ability of an advanced leather artist. This did not and I said so. Then I get jumped on by all the tin knights. I guess it was a hangin' offense.

So I do apologize to the lady if I hurt her feelings. As for the tin knights ---- they can go rust!

[UKRay]

I have a picture of races like those you are talking about, Mike - see below: I use mine to cut stitching grooves. I find they work well on thicker leather but tend to drag on thin stuff. I'd like to find a really good American style groover but don't know where to start looking. Anyone got any ideas? Ray