Is This Correct? Chrome Vs Vegetable Tanning

[Sarden]

Oltoot, thanks. Appreciate the support. I am rising above it and am working on an altered version that stays true to the objective while incorporating some of the less snarky comments. I only came to get my facts straight.

Thor, thanks. Yes, I came across that one. Nice infographic — that seems to lean towards veg tan as well.

I do understand that in some cases CT is simply the best choice. As you say, for car seats, garments etc., veg tan would not work well. I will write a little more about that in our updated version.

We are a bit all over the place in Europe. British/Danish team that originally set up office in Spain but are currently in Copenhagen, Denmark. We are not really looking for tanneries ourselves. What we do is source and promote quality producers from around the world — currently Europe and Japan — and act as a "hub" for these products. The producers of them work with tanneries in Germany, France, Portugal, Italy etc.

Part of our mission is to provide non-converts with accessible information so we get some more people out there to use quality products instead of mass-produced stuff that tends to fall apart and is generally just depressing to look at. I guess our veg tan preferences stem from this — but we are not out to misinform, so we are checking some of the sources suggested in this thread.

[Thor]

I don't think you should see or understand the comments as an offence. They may sound harsh... No doubt. On the other hand if you are in business for long enough you know how to take it. I'm not taking any of these comments personal and the personal opinion of whom ever doesn't bother me, especially when it's just based on a personal experience or emotional feeling even. I'm would be the last to say that I have it right all the time.

For instance, and this is something NStar is referring to as well, there's a well known company out there distributing sort of 50%knowledge, mixing up a few facts, stirring the whole pot and then selling it as the one and only truth, which in fact is just wrong and BS. I would like to have some of the German documents written in English, which would help in the education process, but they are simply not available and I don't have the time nor the need to translate. I might get it wrong anyways... However, if the basics are not right, than a person will ask himself what is correct and what not, leaving him with more questions than before. Therefore the pictures I gave you might be all you need.

For example the mentioned person is stating that dying is tanning - one way or the other. The facts are. A skin doesn't have to be dyed to become leather. That part can be skipped. Essentially leather is skin with the absence of protein, pigments and keratin... as well as fat will be removed prior or after tanning. During tanning the proteins are being fixated and cross-linked to achieve the desired result. So this is the basic and then we differ into chrome and veg tanning and so on. This is a complex process put into very brief form.

Either process, can ,if done wrong, have environmental impact. Due to this fact, one cannot say whether veg tanning is better than chrome tanning etc. What one can say, is that it is a proven fact, that Europe has very strong regulations for this and that they are being enforced. This may be true for US and Canada as well, I don't know, but we know for a fact that in many Asian countries this isn't the case.

Hope this helps. BTW. I'm quite sure that your Danish folks do understand German and are able to look up those sources as well as they are quite a bit better in this regards.

[fivewayswelshcobs]

Just to chip in traditional oak tanned leather actually takes year or longer to make not a couple of months- see J and F J Bakers website, I would also think many other veg tanned leathers could also take longer depending on the materials being used ie the skin and also the tannin source and also depending on the conditions in which the leather is being tanned in eg the weather.

[Sarden]

Final piece has been posted over at: http://www.carryology.com/insights/chrome-vs-vegetable-tanned-leather/

Thanks to everybody for supplying valuable information a few months back. As you can see, the original version ended up being tweaked quite a bit.

[thefanninator]

Part of our mission is to provide non-converts with accessible information so we get some more people out there to use quality products instead of mass-produced stuff that tends to fall apart and is generally just depressing to look at. I guess our veg tan preferences stem from this — but we are not out to misinform, so we are checking some of the sources suggested in this thread.

You might want to go into some detail about the pros and cons of hand stitching vs. machine stitching.

Edited August 30, 2015 by thefanninator

[Shagbark]

Chrome tan- Best for anything soft: "Bag-Style" purses, Fannypacks, Clothing, Pouches, furniture any other "soft" product.

Well, it's still a long ways from the softness of brain tanned leather.

[ChuckBurrows]

FWIW - anyone who thinks large scale or even small scale veg tanning is "natural" needs to talk tot he folks at the tanneries and found out how fun it is to deal with the EPA and having to update their tooling and methods causing many in the USA to close their doors forever.

Yes tannins are "natural" but that doesn't mean they are good for the environment especially on an industrial scale. Read the history and you will find most tanneries were situated from the public when possible due to the odor and rivers and streams were so heavily polluted that the fish were killed off. Even in a natural setting such as a cedar swamp the water can become so bad due to the tannic acids that critters, even most bugs, can't live off it - drink some and you will think you sucked in a lemon.

And FWIW - chrome tan (albeit in many countries chrome tannin is and has been being phased out by using aldehydes rather than chrome salts) can take on an awesome patina when it's full grain, pullup is just one type of chrome tan full grain that gets an awesome patina over time and is often used on very high end furniture and for high end car seats.

And while seeking out natural products is generally a good thing and admirable, but please be aware that tanning is only one part of the process, and when it comes to the butchering, dehairing, removal of flesh, etc. are common all types of tanning (veg, chrome, brain, oil, etc.) and produce thousands of pounds of industrial waste, so tanning on any level is all that "natural" when it comes to possible damage to the environment. FWIW - in over 50 years of running my own leather business and also being a small business adviser for 35 years I found the number one thing is to be honest. And as noted above their is some not so good info out there one glaring example is one of the leather waterproofing sites, which states oils are bad for leather since all oils are eliminated during the tanning process which is true, BUT oils, fats, etc. are re-introduced during the currying stage, the stage where the leather is thinned/split, top finished if need be, dyed, oiled, softened, etc.