Did I Get Bad Veg-Tan?

[Tokarsky]

I recently bought a side of Veg-tan from Weaver leather, and had it cut into 3/4" straps for making a bulk order of camera straps for a customer. When I received the leather straps (side) I started looking them over and most of them have a good 40-50" of quality leather, then it starts to degrade into this more fibrous portion that feels like its delaminating. Is this normal as whole sides go, or did they sell me a bullshit side of leather, cut it up and hope I'd not notice? I'll post pics as soon as I get home from the office, but I was hoping to get 2 straps out of each single weaver cut strap, but because of this nasty portion of leather it doesn't look like I'll be able to, on almost every long strap...

Did I get a side with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_rot_%28leather%29 that isn't red?

[Art]

Tokarsky,

I just sounds like runout into the neck area of the hide. The neck area can be quite fibrous, but this effect has varying degrees, some hides a lot and some hides none. If you want long straps, you really have to tell them so that they can select a large hide with a tighter neck area. You can be picky, and most suppliers will try to accommodate you, but don't be a PIA.

Art

[Tokarsky]

Edited April 30, 2015 by Tokarsky

[Art]

That is the neck area, and sometimes you get a hide like that although I would have expected better from Weaver as you were cutting it into straps. There will be unusable or at least second quality in portions of any hide, I've seen plenty like yours, but I have seen many better ones.

Art

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

And that is EXACTLY why I will never let someone else cut leather that I am going to use. That shoulder/neck area could have been used for another project if left intact, now you have a whole bunch of straps that may not be good for anything. Not rippin' on ya, just the voice of experience speaking. Hides with good, usable shoulder areas, with no drop-off in weight and a minimum of wrinkles seems to nearly be a thing of the past. Try cutting driving lines from leather like you received (only harness leather of course). It's no wonder the synthetics have become popular. I've seen new old stock lines that were made back in the '30's and you can't tell the butt from the neck or the shoulder. Good, solid hide from one end to the other, and no wrinkles. I dream about getting leather like that.

[Tokarsky]

I guess my main issue with this is that they sold it as a "8/9oz Strap Side" basically 1/2 of this side is unusable at 8/9oz for anything strap related.

[Sonydaze]

I buy a fair amount of leather from Weaver. Since I live on Vancouver Island, going and picking hides is not an option. Generally Weaver sends me reasonably good hides. You have to understand the grade of any particular hide you are ordering and adjust your expectations. Over the years, I have had a few problems but Weaver has always worked with me to a good resolution.

When ordering, specify any (reasonable) special needs and they are good to try and match them.

[Tokarsky]

I buy a fair amount of leather from Weaver. Since I live on Vancouver Island, going and picking hides is not an option. Generally Weaver sends me reasonably good hides. You have to understand the grade of any particular hide you are ordering and adjust your expectations. Over the years, I have had a few problems but Weaver has always worked with me to a good resolution.

When ordering, specify any (reasonable) special needs and they are good to try and match them.

Yeah I can respect that, and upfront I gave them a ton of info with the order i.e. don't cut anything under 40", I wanted a longer hide hopefully at least 84" to get at least 2 40" straps per strap, the length they got right, the quality not so much. But this was my first side, I was hoping to have mostly usable material, with this I have about 60% usable, that just seems wrong. Someone elsewhere mentioned that maybe they tried to force a 4/5oz side to be a 8/9oz side, hoping I wouldn't notice since it was pre cut. Hopefully my pleasant but descriptive email gets the ball rolling on a resolution.

Side note, I'm down here in the Seattle area, neighbor!

Edited April 30, 2015 by Tokarsky

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I think Weaver is a big enough company that they aren't going to try to cheat you by sticking you with a 4/5 when you ordered a 8/9 and hoping you wouldn't notice. I would sooner expect that from a smaller company, but there are so many people that work at Weaver and each person is just doing their job. They might suck at their job, but I don't think anyone is out to cheat you in that way. You have to understand the qualities within a hide. A cow only has one butt, and the neck and shoulder is not going to be the same quality as the butt. Their term "strap side" refers more to the type of leather than if that particular hide is suited the whole length for a given type of strap. We harness makers run into this with every hide we cut; that's part of the job, evaluating each and every hide and deciding what type of parts would be suitable to cut from it, I'm not saying you don't have a legitimate gripe with Weaver, because I've had to call and complain and send leather back also. But I'm thinking MAYBE you need to reconsider your expectations for cutting your straps the total length of ANY hide. I receive very few hides that make the grade for cutting a full length strap which will remain unlined and used at it's full length, such as driving lines. I doubt if it's one in ten. I have just learned to adjust my expectations and use every hide as best I can. When I get one that I know I'll be able to cut lines from, I set it aside, and that's the ONLY thing that gets cut from that side until I run down far enough toward the belly to make it unsuitable for lines. It often means an increased cost to the consumer, because of increased waste factor, but that's just part of the job and part of life.

[Tokarsky]

I think Weaver is a big enough company that they aren't going to try to cheat you by sticking you with a 4/5 when you ordered a 8/9 and hoping you wouldn't notice. I would sooner expect that from a smaller company, but there are so many people that work at Weaver and each person is just doing their job. They might suck at their job, but I don't think anyone is out to cheat you in that way. You have to understand the qualities within a hide. A cow only has one butt, and the neck and shoulder is not going to be the same quality as the butt. Their term "strap side" refers more to the type of leather than if that particular hide is suited the whole length for a given type of strap. We harness makers run into this with every hide we cut; that's part of the job, evaluating each and every hide and deciding what type of parts would be suitable to cut from it, I'm not saying you don't have a legitimate gripe with Weaver, because I've had to call and complain and send leather back also. But I'm thinking MAYBE you need to reconsider your expectations for cutting your straps the total length of ANY hide. I receive very few hides that make the grade for cutting a full length strap which will remain unlined and used at it's full length, such as driving lines. I doubt if it's one in ten. I have just learned to adjust my expectations and use every hide as best I can. When I get one that I know I'll be able to cut lines from, I set it aside, and that's the ONLY thing that gets cut from that side until I run down far enough toward the belly to make it unsuitable for lines. It often means an increased cost to the consumer, because of increased waste factor, but that's just part of the job and part of life.

That's a fair statement, and again this is 100% new to me, first side I've ever bought. I think the hardest part is since ordering online I had to buy it sight unseen. I'd have gladly paid a bit extra to get a nicer or bigger or whatever side, but unfortunately I wasn't given that opportunity. I appreciate the input about adjusting expectations.