Members Redochre Posted May 16, 2015 Members Report Posted May 16, 2015 So I ended up chatting with a saddler I met on a train about bridle leather and conditioning leather in general. He said some very interesting stuff.... Mainly his loathing for neatsfoot or the use of any oil in general for leatherwork. His argument was that its not oil that is lost when you work with leather, it's fat. The only reason saddlers traditionally used oil was to aid the tanning process (sun tanning). He said look at curriers grease.....Its mainly made up of grease(tallow) and waxes with some oil as a carrrier. Can anyone confirm this? I have no way of verifying what he said, I had a to get off while he was half through a rant about horse magazine's giving bad info to the public. I couldn't find much tallow so I bought some beef dripping to experiment with. Quote
Members Geneva Posted May 16, 2015 Members Report Posted May 16, 2015 You being a novice should believe your elders when they talk of things you don't know anything about. I posted a note about this veru subject 4 or 5 weeks ago. No one heard a word I said. The gentleman you talked to hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!! Leather does not loose oil when it is tanned it loses fat. The tallow is used before the finish sealer is applied. I use Resolene as a sealer and finish for my stuff after applying tallow. You willl not believe the difference in the feel of the finished prdoduct. Good luck practicing with the tallow. Quote
Members TinkerTailor Posted May 16, 2015 Members Report Posted May 16, 2015 Look at the ingredients for Brooks Proofide, the traditional conditionioning treatment for Brooks bicycle saddles which are wet formed veg tan. Tallow is a major ingredient. They use it because it treats the leather without making it stretchier, which oil can do. That stuff is amazing. I have over 15000 kms on a brooks saddle in the vancouver rain, and it is still awesome. Proofide is the key.The ingredients are Tallow, Cod Oil, Veg oil, paraffin, beeswax, citronella. Quote "If nobody shares what they know, we will eventually all know nothing." "There is no adventure in letting fear and common sense be your guide"
Members gmace99 Posted May 16, 2015 Members Report Posted May 16, 2015 I buy my saddle leather from two places in England one of them I know mixes in veg oil and tallow fat. I also use Tallow fat to finish the edges on saddles or bridles And I Never use neatsfoot oil to feed leather instead I mix tallow and veg oil. I like my mixture to be more creamy as I don't want to over feed the leather. Quote www.uksaddlery.com Saddlery training courses in Dunoon Scotland UK.
Members Redochre Posted May 18, 2015 Author Members Report Posted May 18, 2015 Thank you for your replies guys. Anyone else wanna weigh in on this? Quote
Moderator Art Posted May 18, 2015 Moderator Report Posted May 18, 2015 Tallow, has a lot of salts in it. I guess a lot of the salt is in there to at least deter it going rancid. Neatsfoot, the real stuff, will also go rancid unless some preservative is in there. If something is put on top of the oils to keep the oxygen away from them they should be ok. I have seen tallow dressed skins go white, which is decay. This can be rubbed out and fresh oil applied. I prefer Pecard's as a synthetic product (with some beeswax added), or Montana Pitchblend for an all natural (and naturally antimicrobial) product. Tallow is fine if proper engineering is accomplished to stabilize it; although the salts can damage the leather fibers over time. Art Quote For heaven's sakes pilgrim, make yourself a strop!
Members Andrew Chee Posted May 18, 2015 Members Report Posted May 18, 2015 I've made conditioners for leather that uses tallow. I think the difficulty for home users of tallow is to get sufficient amounts of it into the leather itself. Oils are more liquid and probably absorb easier into the leather. Tanneries that stuff their leather with tallows and waxes do it in a hot drum where the stuffing is melted so therefore absorb easier. There seems to be two ways to get the fats absorbed, either by heating it up some so it is more liquid or mixing it with a solvent to get it into the leather. I tend not to use tallow as much because it is a bit more difficult to get a sufficient amount absorbed. If someone here has a good recipe/technique, I would love to hear it. Andrew Quote
Members TinkerTailor Posted May 19, 2015 Members Report Posted May 19, 2015 Tallow, has a lot of salts in it. I guess a lot of the salt is in there to at least deter it going rancid. Neatsfoot, the real stuff, will also go rancid unless some preservative is in there. If something is put on top of the oils to keep the oxygen away from them they should be ok. I have seen tallow dressed skins go white, which is decay. This can be rubbed out and fresh oil applied. I prefer Pecard's as a synthetic product (with some beeswax added), or Montana Pitchblend for an all natural (and naturally antimicrobial) product. Tallow is fine if proper engineering is accomplished to stabilize it; although the salts can damage the leather fibers over time. Art The citronella in the proofide is both a solvent for the tallow and an anti microbial Quote "If nobody shares what they know, we will eventually all know nothing." "There is no adventure in letting fear and common sense be your guide"
Members MudBugWill Posted May 22, 2015 Members Report Posted May 22, 2015 I have been using a concoction of 50% tallow, 25% lard, and 25% beeswax for some time now and it is amazing. It is a bit stiff, but put a thick layer on, hit it with the hair dryer, massage it in, and next thing you know you have rich leather and soft hands. I also throw in a bit of lanolin to the recipe. I use it on all my veg-tan leather, put it on my chapped lips. style my hair with it occasionally. and finish my Micarta knife handles with it. It is quite the potion. Hermann Oak Natural veg-tan before: After: (different wallet, same material) Quote
Members NoHillForAHighStepper Posted May 19, 2017 Members Report Posted May 19, 2017 Old whip builders were notoriously innovative. The conditioner that has been passed down for generations in Australia is: Equal parts of beef tallow, 30 weight motor oil and kerosene. Personally, I have used pure neatsfoot for decades with excellent results. I have a saddle that is well over 70 years old and has been conditioned with pure neatsfoot exclusively. In the more recent past, I have found that Pecards original conditioner is also an excellent choice. Quote
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