Using Tallow To Condition Leather.

[Redochre]

So I ended up chatting with a saddler I met on a train about bridle leather and conditioning leather in general.

He said some very interesting stuff.... Mainly his loathing for neatsfoot or the use of any oil in general for leatherwork. His argument was that its not oil that is lost when you work with leather, it's fat. The only reason saddlers traditionally used oil was to aid the tanning process (sun tanning).

He said look at curriers grease.....Its mainly made up of grease(tallow) and waxes with some oil as a carrrier.

Can anyone confirm this? I have no way of verifying what he said, I had a to get off while he was half through a rant about horse magazine's giving bad info to the public.

I couldn't find much tallow so I bought some beef dripping to experiment with.

[Geneva]

You being a novice should believe your elders when they talk of things you don't know anything about.

I posted a note about this veru subject 4 or 5 weeks ago. No one heard a word I said.

The gentleman you talked to hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!! Leather does not loose oil when it is tanned it loses fat. The tallow is used before the finish sealer is applied. I use Resolene as a sealer and finish for my stuff after applying tallow. You willl not believe the difference in the feel of the finished prdoduct.

Good luck practicing with the tallow.

[TinkerTailor]

Look at the ingredients for Brooks Proofide, the traditional conditionioning treatment for Brooks bicycle saddles which are wet formed veg tan. Tallow is a major ingredient. They use it because it treats the leather without making it stretchier, which oil can do. That stuff is amazing. I have over 15000 kms on a brooks saddle in the vancouver rain, and it is still awesome. Proofide is the key.The ingredients are Tallow, Cod Oil, Veg oil, paraffin, beeswax, citronella.

[gmace99]

I buy my saddle leather from two places in England one of them I know mixes in veg oil and tallow fat.

I also use Tallow fat to finish the edges on saddles or bridles

And I Never use neatsfoot oil to feed leather instead I mix tallow and veg oil. I like my mixture to be more creamy as I don't want to over feed the leather.

[Redochre]

Thank you for your replies guys.

Anyone else wanna weigh in on this?

[Art]

Tallow, has a lot of salts in it. I guess a lot of the salt is in there to at least deter it going rancid. Neatsfoot, the real stuff, will also go rancid unless some preservative is in there. If something is put on top of the oils to keep the oxygen away from them they should be ok. I have seen tallow dressed skins go white, which is decay. This can be rubbed out and fresh oil applied. I prefer Pecard's as a synthetic product (with some beeswax added), or Montana Pitchblend for an all natural (and naturally antimicrobial) product.

Tallow is fine if proper engineering is accomplished to stabilize it; although the salts can damage the leather fibers over time.

Art

[Andrew Chee]

I've made conditioners for leather that uses tallow. I think the difficulty for home users of tallow is to get sufficient amounts of it into the leather itself. Oils are more liquid and probably absorb easier into the leather. Tanneries that stuff their leather with tallows and waxes do it in a hot drum where the stuffing is melted so therefore absorb easier. There seems to be two ways to get the fats absorbed, either by heating it up some so it is more liquid or mixing it with a solvent to get it into the leather.

I tend not to use tallow as much because it is a bit more difficult to get a sufficient amount absorbed. If someone here has a good recipe/technique, I would love to hear it.

Andrew

[TinkerTailor]

Tallow, has a lot of salts in it. I guess a lot of the salt is in there to at least deter it going rancid. Neatsfoot, the real stuff, will also go rancid unless some preservative is in there. If something is put on top of the oils to keep the oxygen away from them they should be ok. I have seen tallow dressed skins go white, which is decay. This can be rubbed out and fresh oil applied. I prefer Pecard's as a synthetic product (with some beeswax added), or Montana Pitchblend for an all natural (and naturally antimicrobial) product.

Tallow is fine if proper engineering is accomplished to stabilize it; although the salts can damage the leather fibers over time.

Art

The citronella in the proofide is both a solvent for the tallow and an anti microbial

[MudBugWill]

I have been using a concoction of 50% tallow, 25% lard, and 25% beeswax for some time now and it is amazing. It is a bit stiff, but put a thick layer on, hit it with the hair dryer, massage it in, and next thing you know you have rich leather and soft hands. I also throw in a bit of lanolin to the recipe. I use it on all my veg-tan leather, put it on my chapped lips. style my hair with it occasionally. and finish my Micarta knife handles with it. It is quite the potion.

Hermann Oak Natural veg-tan before:

After: (different wallet, same material)

[NoHillForAHighStepper]

Old whip builders were notoriously innovative.  The conditioner that has been passed down for generations in Australia is:

Equal parts of beef tallow, 30 weight motor oil and kerosene.

Personally, I have used pure neatsfoot for decades with excellent results.  I have a saddle that is well over 70 years old and has been conditioned with pure neatsfoot exclusively.

In the more recent past, I have found that Pecards original conditioner is also an excellent choice.

[YinTx]

On 5/22/2015 at 10:47 AM, MudBugWill said:

I have been using a concoction of 50% tallow, 25% lard, and 25% beeswax for some time now and it is amazing.

Wait, I just read that tallow is Lard!  (see product description here:  http://grasslandbeef.com/beef-tallow-5-gallon-bucket-ships-separately).  Then I read you are mixing tallow with lard! So what the heck is it if it is not lard???  And where would you buy it in the states?  

Thanks for clearing up my confusion!

YinTx

[YinTx]

hah. Wiki to the rescue... I think Lard is from Pig, and Tallow from cow.  Now, where to buy?

[Troy I]

You can get both from a butcher shop...i have even seen Lard in Wal-Mart. 

You might have to melt the beef fat down, if it comes as hunks of fat.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Troy I

[YinTx]

Troy,

Thanks for that.  And after 15 minutes of internet searching.... how to make your own Tallow!

http://www.paleoplan.com/2011/12-02/make-your-own-tallow/

huh.  so simple.  why buy?

YinTx

[Mhicks]

I bought tallow and lard from a natural food store close by, they were on sale for ~5.00 for 16oz jars.  Doubt it will make much or any difference but for the next batch I'm going to try duck fat instead of pork lard and see how it does. 

[YinTx]

Awesome, let us know!

YinTx

[fredk]

Shurly tallow is just another form of unrefined neetsfoot? Both being the fats from cattle

[gary]

54 minutes ago, fredk said:

Shurly tallow is just another form of unrefined neetsfoot? Both being the fats from cattle

Neatsfoot is made from extracting the fats/oils/gelatine and so on from cows' feet only and the elements are, presumably, in historically accepted proportions.  AFAIK, tallow is made from refining suet (the fat from around the kidneys) of cows and sheep.  If a whole cow was boiled down there would be all the other fats and in, presumably, different proportions from just the feet.

[coolactual]

On 5/19/2017 at 10:16 PM, NoHillForAHighStepper said:

Old whip builders were notoriously innovative.  The conditioner that has been passed down for generations in Australia is:

Equal parts of beef tallow, 30 weight motor oil and kerosene.

Hi, does anyone have any experience with recipes like this that contain synthetics/petroleum derivatives?  Ever since I ruined a good pair of shoes with kiwi shoe polish back in grade school I've always loathed all synthetics/petroleum derivatives.  But now I'm starting to think otherwise.

The reason I started using tallow - and stumbled on this thread - in the first place is because pretty much ALL other oils/fats go rancid.  From an oxidation point of view, motor oil & kerosene are hard to beat as they're basically rancid-proof.  This makes them the best oils to soften tallow with, as opposed to other natural oils.

For the record I've experimented with chicken oil, boiled linseed oil, linseed oil, castor oil, any vegetable cooking oil from the kitchen, etc.  Either applied directly, or incorporated into shoe creme (admittedly, it's kiwi shoe creme but hey at least it looked buttery white not like the coal tar leather destroyer from hell)  All to no satisfaction at all.

(looking back I now recoil at the sadistic experiments I did on my school shoes but well, all in the name of science!)

Tallow has been a lifesaver but I'm getting tired of the hair drier routine.   Please share whatever you know or have heard about synthetics/petroleum derivatives.  And if petroleum products like mineral oil or petrolatum do turn out to be suitable for leather, can someone explain why kiwi shoe polish which reeks of paraffin turned my shoes into a drought-blasted cracked-mud picture of desolation?

[dikman]

 

Have you read this? It may be of some interest to you.