Holster Patterns

[wayner]

JLS Patterns are great . I have used many of them and they all fit like a glove . 

[DieselTech]

@JLSleather do you have a link or pattern for a 40 M&P Shield pancake style holster? Also what other styles of patterns do you offer for the 40 M&P Shield? 

Thanks. Any & all help will be appreciated. 

[Steelart999]

11 hours ago, JLSleather said:

I like the design

That DOES look snug.  Part of that is likely the full-length site channel (which I generally don't do) though teh Glock is clearly a newer design as well.  GOOD news is, you'll know where you want the next one narrower, or wider, or looser ... etc.  Your leather, at least on the back panel, looks like it may be a bit dry (lacking oils)?  Still, you pulled off the look - how does it carry?  Pulls okay?

Cant be sure from the pic if your thread is a bit smaller than I generally use, or could be just the geometry of the needle you used causing that look.  I like the LOOK of 277 thread in a holster, but I'm confident that 207 is certainly enough strength.

Is that elephant?  

Geez ... I'm glad you like the design ... I'm a fan 

I did treat the leather with neatsfoot oil several days before dyeing, but I'm mostly working in a shop at below freezing ... could have affected my entire process    I was using 277 thread on both a straight diamond shaped needle and the bobbin, but I'm obviously still learning how to adjust my machine appropriately.

The gun holds well and will NOT fall out.  Pull is just a little bit tight, but I feel that will ease a bit with use ... and warmer weather.

My thought on the next one is to try to get a flatter backside.  I'm going to do some vacuum forming of the frontside over the gun mold before sewing it onto the backside and then shaping the outer edge of the two when together.  I'm hoping that I can sew close enough to the formed edge using a left-side foot on my machine.  Alternately, I'll just loosen up the opening by moving the stitch lines a bit.

That is elephant on the front.  I've collected way too much exotic leathers over the years with the intent of doing leather sheaths for my knives.  I only ended up doing a few, but have just gotten the itch again ... so here I am. 

This is FUN!!!

Edited January 24, 2024 by Steelart999

[JLSleather]

14 hours ago, DieselTech said:

do you have a link or pattern for a 40 M&P Shield pancake style holster? Also what other styles of patterns do you offer for the 40 M&P Shield? 

I DO

I have a pattern for the shield that is a 'curved pancake".. which I greatly prefer over a "flat back".  Basically a manipulation of a "pancake" holster design, only the front is cut LARGER than the back (inside) panel, and sewn with a bend already in it.

And I also have a design around here sumares for the mag, and a double mag.

 

[JLSleather]

11 hours ago, Steelart999 said:

This is FUN!!!

Agreed. Until it becomes more like a job

I may have something you'll like... and if you got a caliper I'll check some dimensions and make any adjustments if needed.

If you're going to form with that yellow gun, I'm gonna recommend you cut or sand off the rear end of the "slide channel form".  I like to bevel it off so it's a bit of a ramp - exact angle doesn' t matter, but about 30ish shoud be fine.  I've colored the part i would remove.

BETTER YET - I like to take it all teh way off, gouge a groove down the center of the slide.  Then wet the sewn holster, shove the dummy in there, and then drive a dowel (or pencil, whatever) UP from teh muzzle end.  The round stock will track right in teh groove, keeping it in the center, and will stretch the leather ONLY where needed - not change the fit of the whole thing.  NOTE that when using this method, I use a dowel with that same bevel on teh high end, and you only want it to go as far as it needs to go.  Using your gun as example, you only need a site channel until the frame clears the low end of the holster, or basically the dowel can stop about the bottom of the port

Obviously there's a redesign of the trigger guard since that previous design, so that will matter.  A slight change would make that cosmetic detail stand up, which would be nice.

Does your gun have that aggressive rail?  Your holster pic suggests it might.  When forming, I would "pad" that rail with some package tape, or similar - just to keep the leather from forming INTO the rail.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I do make a "curved panel" for the older style G19, which may be more along the lines of what you're wanting to do.  Look a bit like this....

 

Edited January 24, 2024 by JLSleather

[DieselTech]

42 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

I DO

I have a pattern for the shield that is a 'curved pancake".. which I greatly prefer over a "flat back".  Basically a manipulation of a "pancake" holster design, only the front is cut LARGER than the back (inside) panel, and sewn with a bend already in it.

And I also have a design around here sumares for the mag, and a double mag.

 

Ok thanks. I appreciate it. I've spent the last couple hours trying to figure a pattern out. 

I think I come up with something that might work, but wont know till I try it. 

I might need to rack your mind from time to time with some Newbie questions. 

Thanks.

[JLSleather]

48 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

I DO

I have a pattern for the shield that is a 'curved pancake".. which I greatly prefer over a "flat back".  Basically a manipulation of a "pancake" holster design, only the front is cut LARGER than the back (inside) panel, and sewn with a bend already in it.

And I also have a design around here sumares for the mag, and a double mag.

 

The link will take you to the double mag - and if you let me know you're going, if you're purchasing the double mag, I'll INCLUDE the single mag with it.

Oh, there's an "avenger" style holster for the shield 9/40 also

 

4 minutes ago, DieselTech said:

might need to rack your mind from time to time with some Newbie questions. 

no problem. I don't get here all the time these days, but I'll git to messages as i find 'em.

[DieselTech]

4 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

The link will take you to the double mag - and if you let me know you're going, if you're purchasing the double mag, I'll INCLUDE the single mag with it.

Oh, there's an "avenger" style holster for the shield 9/40 also

 

no problem. I don't get here all the time these days, but I'll git to messages as i find 'em.

Yeah I'll visit your site & look at things. I might need to purchase more than 1 pattern. Lol my funds are low after buying a bunch of good leather tools. 

Well & I got 3 veg tan whole hides, what do you recommend for leather weight to make pancake style holsters? I got 9-10oz, 6-7oz, & 4-5oz leather weights. Plus I got some 2oz calf skin. 

Thank again for the help.

[DieselTech]

Lol. Guys & gals dont laugh too hard, but here is my pattern I come up with for a m&p shield 40cal. 

Lmao I better buy stock in poster board thou. 

I'm not sure it will even work till, i cut some leather out. I think i kinda designed a curved pancake style holster. Lol i just winged it. 

[JLSleather]

43 minutes ago, DieselTech said:

what do you recommend for leather weight to make pancake style holsters? I got 9-10oz, 6-7oz, & 4-5oz leather weights. Plus I got some 2oz calf skin. 

most mid-size pistols I like 7/8   Sometimes I make that happen with 4/5 lined with 3/4, or two layers of 3/4, etc.  The 6/7 lined with the 2 put a guy real close.  Keep in mind that your pattern is cutting the OUTSIDE of teh holster, so the thicker the leather, the tighter the fit will be with the same pattern. (I've had guys pay for patterns, says right on it use 7/8, and they got mad because their 9/10 holster was far too tight  )

larger pistols a bit heavier leather, smaller rigs lighter leather.

26 minutes ago, DieselTech said:

I think i kinda designed a curved pancake style holster. Lol i just winged it. 

'just winged it' is how ya learn it -- keep that up.

[DieselTech]

22 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

most mid-size pistols I like 7/8   Sometimes I make that happen with 4/5 lined with 3/4, or two layers of 3/4, etc.  The 6/7 lined with the 2 put a guy real close.  Keep in mind that your pattern is cutting the OUTSIDE of teh holster, so the thicker the leather, the tighter the fit will be with the same pattern. (I've had guys pay for patterns, says right on it use 7/8, and they got mad because their 9/10 holster was far too tight  )

larger pistols a bit heavier leather, smaller rigs lighter leather.

'just winged it' is how ya learn it -- keep that up.

Thanks for your help & your knowledge. I'll get some leather cut out & see if it works out. It's for me anyhow. Plus it's a learning lesson. 

[Steelart999]

13 hours ago, JLSleather said:

Agreed. Until it becomes more like a job

I may have something you'll like... and if you got a caliper I'll check some dimensions and make any adjustments if needed.

If you're going to form with that yellow gun, I'm gonna recommend you cut or sand off the rear end of the "slide channel form".  I like to bevel it off so it's a bit of a ramp - exact angle doesn' t matter, but about 30ish shoud be fine.  I've colored the part i would remove.

BETTER YET - I like to take it all teh way off, gouge a groove down the center of the slide.  Then wet the sewn holster, shove the dummy in there, and then drive a dowel (or pencil, whatever) UP from teh muzzle end.  The round stock will track right in teh groove, keeping it in the center, and will stretch the leather ONLY where needed - not change the fit of the whole thing.  NOTE that when using this method, I use a dowel with that same bevel on teh high end, and you only want it to go as far as it needs to go.  Using your gun as example, you only need a site channel until the frame clears the low end of the holster, or basically the dowel can stop about the bottom of the port

Obviously there's a redesign of the trigger guard since that previous design, so that will matter.  A slight change would make that cosmetic detail stand up, which would be nice.

Does your gun have that aggressive rail?  Your holster pic suggests it might.  When forming, I would "pad" that rail with some package tape, or similar - just to keep the leather from forming INTO the rail.

 

But I do make a "curved panel" for the older style G19, which may be more along the lines of what you're wanting to do.  Look a bit like this....

J, the shaded area you marked is not the slide, but rather a ridge added to the top of the slide, with the profile of the front sight, that stretches all the way to the back.  This creates the channel in the leather for the sight when removing the handgun.  I think that is much the same effect as what you were suggesting with the dowel ... right?

This mold is of a Polymer80 version of the Glock 19 and was made for creating kydex holsters.  It does have a few differences from a factory G19.  The rail is that aggressive, but there is no reason for me not to fill it in with epoxy and smooth it out.  I didn't have any issues with the leather forming into the rail, but it very like would with thinner leather.  I dunno ... I'm still learning the properties of leather and wet leather.

I DO like the looks of the "curved panel" holster you showed.  I had thought to fabricate a block of wood, profiled into a curve, that I would mold the leather over inside the vacuum bag.  Is that what you ended up doing?

Edited January 25, 2024 by Steelart999

[JLSleather]

4 minutes ago, Steelart999 said:

it is a ridge added to the top of the slide, ...creates the channel for the sight when extracting the firearm... much the same effect as what you are getting with the added doweling.

correct - same thing.  Difference then, is that the kydex will remain in the position it was cooled in (until/unless it cracks), whereas the leather is creating "air space" you don't need and dont want.  You really only need a 'site channel' that goes a bit beyond where the muzzle end of the slide clears the narrower part of the holster.  You didn't show us the other side of the "dummy", but I assume that a mold for kydex has had the port filled in as well to prevent molding into the port.  With a leather holster, this is more 'optional' - and I only mention it because that's about how high your "site channel" needs to be.

30 minutes ago, Steelart999 said:

no reason for me not to fill that area with epoxy and smooth it out

yup, that would do it.  That will let the gun slide into the wet leather easier I would guess.  

This is a Sig, but shows the point pretty well.  You can clearly see where the dowel/channel stop.  This was "high enough" to let the slide clear into where the holster opening widens, and will vary depending on the model. Course, if you're driving the dowel from the bottom, all a guy gotta do it tap it up until you get the height you want and let the rest stick out.

[JLSleather]

On 1/25/2024 at 6:10 AM, Steelart999 said:

I DO like the looks of the "curved panel" holster you showed.  I had thought to fabricate a block of wood, profiled into a curve, that I would mold the leather over inside the vacuum bag.  Is that what you ended up doing?

Well, no.  Actually those holsters are made from patterns, much like other patterns. But the front piece is wider than the back panel, so if you glue it where ya should, then stick it together on the outside edges lined up, the curve forms in naturally. You can kinda see this in an old video I made forever ago... using a "curved panel" holster and a "pancake" mag carrier for the same gun, kinda two birds with one rock type instruction (actually was about something else, but I still think it's worth the 4 minutes  ).

 

[Steelart999]

Ahhh ... I see what you did there.  Was the holster wetted and then formed over a gun mold via pressure or vacuum?  Or did the firearm fit the existing opening without molding?

The more I thought about it, I decided to try doing a molding of the leather pattern (oversized) of just the front panel, then sewing to a properly profiled back panel and then sanding/shaping the both pieces of leather to the back panel pattern.  Of course, I'd have to shape and finish the entry edge of the front panel before or after vacuum shaping it, but before sewing them together.

With any luck, this weekend I may retry my Glock 19 pattern using the above plan to see if I can get a better finished product from my first attempt.  I do recall your comment about the leather being a bit dry looking (i agree), so I'll do a better job of prep there too.

Thanks!

[JLSleather]

8 hours ago, Steelart999 said:

Was the holster wetted and then formed over a gun mold via pressure or vacuum?

Yup, formed in a vaccuum bag with a "blue" gun.

8 hours ago, Steelart999 said:

I decided to try doing a molding of the leather pattern (oversized) of just the front panel, then sewing to a properly profiled back panel and then sanding/shaping the both pieces of leather

That works also.  I prefer to do it the other way so I can cut like 4 er 6 er 10, glue and sew, form 'em as they are ordered.  Just saves time, and ensures that when a customer comes back for another, or his buddy sees it and wants one, the next one is just like that one (though not identical).

The purpose of that video was actually that "fade" thing SO MANY were on about for YEARS.  LEather workers will take turns claiming the invented it, but Gibson Guitars made that big decades ago, calling it "sunburst".  Guys were taking turns making HOUR LONG videos about it, so I thought somebody might benefit from seeing it done in 3 minutes

That said, I can't find the pic of THAT holster... can't keep em ALL.  But this is a G19 done the SAME WAY, but with a reinforcement panel.  From this you kin prolly tell that it's not "flat", its actually curved BEYOND flat to a natural curve.  This is assembled and sewn before forming.

[Steelart999]

I'm really liking that particular G19 holster (above).  A better, snug fit to my body improves the ability to safely draw a handgun without yanking my pants around      Yeah, that and a well made gun belt ... 

Okay, about gun belts.  Is there a standard for the width, thickness, layer count, layout for gun belts?  I realize that there are always going to differences and variations, but are there any "must-haves" regarding form/function?

[JLSleather]

 

4 hours ago, Steelart999 said:

Okay, about gun belts.  Is there a standard for the width, thickness, layer count, layout for gun belts? 

SOME FOLK (not me) say it should be DOUBLE 8/9 oz, and though I don't care for that, there IS the advantage of being able to use it to pull your truck out the snow if you git stuck

Mine are generally a 'standard' belt is about 12 oz leather - 7/8 lined with 3/4. And 1 1/2" wide. We usedta make 'em 1 3/4" wide, but most jeans makers started making pants loops smaller so that wouldnt' fit most.  In teh end, "standard" is what you decide to make 'em.  Most my holster patterns assume a 1 1/2" wide 12 oz belt.  Biggest one I ever did was a 2" wide belt, about 13/14 oz, for this BIG fella with a 54" waist who wanted to carry TWO Ruger revolvers with 10" barrels. 

Oh, yeah- and I like to use an OVAL punch for the adjustment holes, and I leave 6" past the middle hole to the tip, and I fold the buckle end over and leave 3 1/2" of fold (skived to just under half thickness at the end).

 

Edited February 2, 2024 by JLSleather

[JLSleather]

4 hours ago, Steelart999 said:

I'm really liking that particular G19 holster (above). 

I like makin' that one in exotic stuff too.  Haven't done it in dog yet, but I got one askin' fer it

This some mottled grey elephant and black shark hide.

[Steelart999]

3 hours ago, JLSleather said:

 

SOME FOLK (not me) say it should be DOUBLE 8/9 oz, and though I don't care for that, there IS the advantage of being able to use it to pull your truck out the snow if you git stuck

Mine are generally a 'standard' belt is about 12 oz leather - 7/8 lined with 3/4. And 1 1/2" wide. We usedta make 'em 1 3/4" wide, but most jeans makers started making pants loops smaller so that wouldnt' fit most.  In teh end, "standard" is what you decide to make 'em.  Most my holster patterns assume a 1 1/2" wide 12 oz belt.  Biggest one I ever did was a 2" wide belt, about 13/14 oz, for this BIG fella with a 54" waist who wanted to carry TWO Ruger revolvers with 10" barrels. 

Oh, yeah- and I like to use an OVAL punch for the adjustment holes, and I leave 6" past the middle hole to the tip, and I fold the buckle end over and leave 3 1/2" of fold (skived to just under half thickness at the end).

 

Excellent summary of "standard" parameters; thank you.  I have done very little leather tooling as you've done (okay ...almost none), but have always wanted to make a set of gun belts with exotic overlays of elephant trunk, hippo, cape buffalo, rhino, shark, croc, stingray and possibly a big cat (yeah, right).  You know, something along the lines of the "Big Five" for hunters, plus more.  Obviously legal hides.  I tend to have a bit of an unusual (and sometimes frowned upon) taste in materials.  BUT ... I have a ways to go before I'll feel that my creations might be up to par for doing that.

[Steelart999]

3 hours ago, JLSleather said:

I like makin' that one in exotic stuff too.  Haven't done it in dog yet, but I got one askin' fer it

This some mottled grey elephant and black shark hide.

Sweet !!! Very much my preferred style.  I haven't felt the need to explore decorative "Dog" embellishments, but we had a cat once ...   And we had some racoons that totally trashed our corn harvest two years in a row ... but then those I'd just feed to the dogs.

[remotelarry]

On 2/1/2024 at 2:10 PM, JLSleather said:

Yup, formed in a vaccuum bag with a "blue" gun.

That works also.  I prefer to do it the other way so I can cut like 4 er 6 er 10, glue and sew, form 'em as they are ordered.  Just saves time, and ensures that when a customer comes back for another, or his buddy sees it and wants one, the next one is just like that one (though not identical).

The purpose of that video was actually that "fade" thing SO MANY were on about for YEARS.  LEather workers will take turns claiming the invented it, but Gibson Guitars made that big decades ago, calling it "sunburst".  Guys were taking turns making HOUR LONG videos about it, so I thought somebody might benefit from seeing it done in 3 minutes

That said, I can't find the pic of THAT holster... can't keep em ALL.  But this is a G19 done the SAME WAY, but with a reinforcement panel.  From this you kin prolly tell that it's not "flat", its actually curved BEYOND flat to a natural curve.  This is assembled and sewn before forming.

Jeff, is the Glock 17/19 pattern on your etsy site this style or 50/50? There is nothing in the descriptions of your patterns to indicate which. 

Thanks

Larry

[JLSleather]

4 hours ago, remotelarry said:

Jeff, is the Glock 17/19 pattern on your etsy site this style or 50/50?

yup - the etsy shop is 5050.  Look like this if you use brown dye and brown caiman hide

those have been BIG for years.  Personally prefer the "curved pancake" style myself.  Those 5050 builds are simple to make, and you could cut front and back from the same cutting die, so they're popular as all.

Issue was, as a rule the tighter you cinch the belt, the more friction on the pistol - which I don't like.  Folks talk about "breakin em in", but they just mean stretchin' em, mostly.  At some point, the holster no longer retains the pistol when you take it off, and the holster gets replaced (maybe thats why holster makers like em?).  You can make a 5050 KYDEX holster without that issue, cept it's gonna protrude more and be less likely to conceal.

And forming the front over the gun on a table or bench, allowing to dry, then sewing, DOES work, and works WELL.  But the TIME involved in that doesn't lend itself to getting the numbers out, unless maybe you have thousands of square feet of bench.  Robert, while he was with us, did this well as ANYBODY, and made some genuinely beautiful pocket holsters in teh process (Sig Sauer sent him their logo stamp to use on the holsters they ordered).  I should find that picture of what I think is probably the BEST looking leather holster I've ever seen - designed and made by Robert, who taught me a good bit.

BACK to the point....

These "curved panel" holsters have the same retention in your hand as they do on your belt.  Tightening the belt doesn't tighten the holster (well, I suppose if you sucked the belly in and HAULED on your belt, maybe a little?).

 

[wayner]

Another big problem with the 50/50 holster is if you get someone real skinny they will not be able to draw the gun out of the holster because there will be too much tension on it. 

[JLSleather]

2 hours ago, wayner said:

too much tension on it. 

yup.  the tighter you bend it, the tighter you bind it.

Seem like somebody around here once posted some pdf's about howta makeyer own, in different ways, including comparing '5050' and "flat back" pattern makin'.  Dummy even gav it away free...