Consew 1026Rb Vs Tacsew 111-155 Or Consew 105Rb-1

[bubbagum]

I see mainly duty gear out of corduroy, scuba webbing, and regular nylon webbing. I have handstiched holsters and sheaths in the past but for now I mainly want a machine for nylon. I want something that can handle leather for belts but nylon is most of it for now.

There is a Consew 105rb-1 available used as well as a tacsew 111-155. I like the 105rb but it is not a needle feed machine, will that cause any issues for leather occasionally?

If I buy a new machine is the Consew 1206rb any good? I trust Consew name more than Tacsew but they look similar and have seen no reviews of 1206 on here?

Any advice you can give will be appreciated.

[Wizcrafts]

I would set my sights on a new walking foot machine with reverse. The Consew P1206RB is a brand new model and has a built in oil pump. It need to run fast, often. There are no reviews I've seen yet. It has similar specs to the 206RB-5 and may be an upgrade, or a replacement. Ask a Consew dealer for more details.

The Consew 206RB-5 is well established and is manually oiled, which is better if most of your sewing will be a very slow speeds. Both Consews use a large M bobbin that plugs in under the machine, on the left side. They will sew up to 3/8 inch, at 4 to the inch, with at least #138 thread. They use the same type 111 feet that are used on most compound feed walking foot machine.

If you must buy used, try out the machine first. If it can't sew 1/4 inch of webbing, pass on it. Stick to compound feed if possible. If you can't find one, look for at least a dual feed (top and bottom, with teeth) walking foot machine. It will mark leather badly, but is great for cloth, vinyl and webbing.

[bubbagum]

Thank you . A local dealer said 1206rb was not a replacement for 206rb5 but a cheaper model to compete better with less expensive machines. consew website says it is a replacement. I don't really want to buy a new, and possibly inferior machine but if it might be their replacement it might be the thing to buy. I just want reliability and easy to find parts.

[Wizcrafts]

Bear in mind that the new model has an oil pump. You have to sew fast to distribute oil to all moving parts in the top end. If you don't anticipate sewing at 30 or 40 stitches per second most of the time, go for a Consew 206RB-5. It is manually oiled and uses gravity feed. Sew as slow or fast as you want. Just make sure it has an oil drip pan under the head.

[EmergerFlyFishing]

Bear in mind that the new model has an oil pump. You have to sew fast to distribute oil to all moving parts in the top end. If you don't anticipate sewing at 30 or 40 stitches per second most of the time, go for a Consew 206RB-5. It is manually oiled and uses gravity feed. Sew as slow or fast as you want. Just make sure it has an oil drip pan under the head.

Hey there guys. Brand new to leatherworker.net but I've been watching and reading up in the forums for a while. I'm a little late to this post but I wanted to check in on this.

Wiz, I've been looking at purchasing a new 1206RB pretty soon. I've talked to a couple of dealers, and no one has mentioned anything about the need to sew that fast with this machine. I sew fly fishing gear bags and smaller wallets (mostly 18oz waxed canvas but my wallets have 6oz English Bridle straps sewn onto them) and things like that, and I don't really ever sew that fast on my products. Is this oil pump really something to be concerned about? If so, it may impact whether or not I go with this machine.

[Wizcrafts]

All of the oil pump equipped sewing machines require a fair amount of speed to fully distribute the oil. I have no way of knowing if this new model is any different. The spec sheet says that the top speed is 3000 rpm. It doesn't say what the minimum recommended speed is. That is an unfortunate oversight. It is probably included in the user instructions that come with the machine.

Based on other self oiled machines, my guess is that it must spin at least at 2000 rpm to get oil to the extremities. That's only about 33 stitches per second. You can do that by winding bobbins before you start sewing. Just unthread the machine, lift the presser feet and floor it as the bobbin winds. You should be good to go for about an hour before you need to spin it that fast again.

[EmergerFlyFishing]

Ha! Awesome Wiz. Good to know. Thanks for the reply.

[dikman]

Out of curiosity, I looked at the machine on the Consew website and then read the manual that they have made available. One discrepancy, the website lists the top speed as 3000 spm, the manual says 1800 spm - bit of a difference there. The manual also refers to a low speed of 1000-1500 spm, so I'm guessing that if you run it at the sort of speeds some leatherworkers like (real slow) and it seizes through lack of lubrication any warranty may be considered void! (I couldn't see any reference to a minimum speed).

I think I'd be pushing the dealers a bit harder about what's needed to keep the oil flowing - if they know! Personally, based on what Wiz has mentioned, I wouldn't touch one of these for (slow speed) leatherwork, at least not until someone else has proven that they will be ok at ultra slow speeds.

[EmergerFlyFishing]

Out of curiosity, I looked at the machine on the Consew website and then read the manual that they have made available. One discrepancy, the website lists the top speed as 3000 spm, the manual says 1800 spm - bit of a difference there. The manual also refers to a low speed of 1000-1500 spm, so I'm guessing that if you run it at the sort of speeds some leatherworkers like (real slow) and it seizes through lack of lubrication any warranty may be considered void! (I couldn't see any reference to a minimum speed).

I think I'd be pushing the dealers a bit harder about what's needed to keep the oil flowing - if they know! Personally, based on what Wiz has mentioned, I wouldn't touch one of these for (slow speed) leatherwork, at least not until someone else has proven that they will be ok at ultra slow speeds.

Yeah, I'd looked at the manual and info on the consew site as well. I wasn't really paying attention to the speeds that much because I didn't know the self oiled machines would have this issue.

I will say that I've emailed back and forth with Bob at Toledo Industrial about this machine. He said the 1206 is meant to be a replacement for the Chandler 406 (the reason I had emailed him to begin with). I described to him what I typically sew and he felt said that he felt certain it would sew what I needed to sew, that he would set it up with a FS 550. But he didn't say much about speed. It didn't come up in our conversation. I'll probably check back with him about it now.

[Wizcrafts]

It will be easy enough for Bob to check the oil flow at various speeds, once he has one set up on a table.

[EmergerFlyFishing]

It will be easy enough for Bob to check the oil flow at various speeds, once he has one set up on a table.

I just heard back from Bob. He says to date, they have had no issues with auto lube machines, although it wouldn't be a bad idea to wind a bobbin once a day to keep oil flowing. He says Consew tells him even at lower speeds that it still pumps oil to the bearings.

[Wizcrafts]

I just heard back from Bob. He says to date, they have had no issues with auto lube machines, although it wouldn't be a bad idea to wind a bobbin once a day to keep oil flowing. He says Consew tells him even at lower speeds that it still pumps oil to the bearings.

If this is true, Consew must have improved the low end performance of their oil pumps. Other/older oil pumped sewing machines have definitely required much higher average sewing speeds to distribute the oil to the ends of the long wicks.

FWIIW: The last time I sat at a self oiled Singer 192 to service it, it was geared about 2:1 at the motor, thus spinning at about 3500 rpm. The clutch brake was backed off enough that I could feather it down to about 10 or 15 stitches per second. The oil didn't move in the inspection bubble at that rate. When I floored the pedal I got oil flowing. The ladies who used that and similar machines were making hospital smocks or aprons and sewed with the pedal down. This translates into about 58 stitches per second.

[dikman]

Obviously, I can't argue with Bob's experience, but what do Consew consider "lower speeds"? Logic would indicate that if an oil pump is designed to pump an adequate amount of oil at high speed, then at very low speed it would be struggling to move much oil, if any. The only way that I can see that it could work is if the oil pump is driven by a system that automatically speeds up the pump as the motor revs slow down - unlikely to be fitted due to the added complexity. You could end up winding an awful lot of bobbins just to ensure it's oiled .

Just idle speculation on my part.

[EmergerFlyFishing]

Obviously, I can't argue with Bob's experience, but what do Consew consider "lower speeds"? Logic would indicate that if an oil pump is designed to pump an adequate amount of oil at high speed, then at very low speed it would be struggling to move much oil, if any. The only way that I can see that it could work is if the oil pump is driven by a system that automatically speeds up the pump as the motor revs slow down - unlikely to be fitted due to the added complexity. You could end up winding an awful lot of bobbins just to ensure it's oiled .

Just idle speculation on my part.

It sounds kinda like you're arguing with Bob . I'm not going to get in the middle of a debate about how capable the oil pump is.

My bigger question to all of this was- will this machine do what I need it to do, even at a slow speed? I'm new to using industrial machines, so the ins and outs of what a particular machine is capable of are outside of my realm of knowledge.

I have talked to three different dealers, one of those being Bob, and all have said that there should be no issues sewing at very slow speeds with the machine. That is regardless of whether or not the oil gets pumped. All three have said that either unthreading the machine and flooring the peddle for a couple of minutes, or winding a bobbin once a day will easily do the trick and there should be absolutely no issues. Wiz, even you said that above.

It was reinforced by the dealers that the machines can actually go for quite a while after being oiled (I'm sure this depends not the amount of use of course), but Bob said that he knows people who will only manually oil their machines once a month with no issues. Another dealer said at a high work load, it should only need it about every 8 hours. Thats about a full days work. I even saw a manual for an older Consew machine that recommended oiling every 8 hours of steady use.

So whether or not the pump will get oil up into the machine at a slow speed, it sounds to me like an auto oil pump will be no issue at all as long a regular habit of running the motor once a day at high speed is established.

Now if you guys want to continue to debate the abilities or shortfalls of an auto oiler, be my guest. Thanks for all of the advice though guys. I appreciate it.

[dikman]

Sorry, it's not my intention to argue the point (If I wanted to do that I'd start a thread on what oil to use - I love oil threads!!!). Reading the manual, coupled with what wiz said, just got the "analytical juices" going (I was told, once, that I have a knack at analysing something and seeing the possible negatives). I've no doubt that it is a high speed oiler, and for many people that wouldn't be a problem, but if someone buys one and proceeds to use it almost exclusively for real low-speed (crawling) work, I can see the potential for problems, as they may just assume that because it's an auto-oiler they don't have to worry about it.

In this case it shouldn't be an issue for you, as you understand what's happening. As for your question about if it will do what you want, as wiz said the specs are pretty much the same as the 206RB, so either one should be adequate. One thing, though, is to possibly allow for a servo motor if you can, as they really are much nicer to use for slow speed work than a clutch motor.

[EmergerFlyFishing]

Sorry, it's not my intention to argue the point (If I wanted to do that I'd start a thread on what oil to use - I love oil threads!!!). Reading the manual, coupled with what wiz said, just got the "analytical juices" going (I was told, once, that I have a knack at analysing something and seeing the possible negatives). I've no doubt that it is a high speed oiler, and for many people that wouldn't be a problem, but if someone buys one and proceeds to use it almost exclusively for real low-speed (crawling) work, I can see the potential for problems, as they may just assume that because it's an auto-oiler they don't have to worry about it.

In this case it shouldn't be an issue for you, as you understand what's happening. As for your question about if it will do what you want, as wiz said the specs are pretty much the same as the 206RB, so either one should be adequate. One thing, though, is to possibly allow for a servo motor if you can, as they really are much nicer to use for slow speed work than a clutch motor.

Ha! No worries. I'm just joking with you. I respect everyones opinion a lot on here so its good to hear all sides. Until I came across this thread, I'd have never even considered that an auto oiler could even potentially be an issue.

With that said, I do think you guys raise an interesting point. I have to wonder if a lot of these companies aren't doing a very good when it comes to communicating some of the short comings of a product like this. They obviously wouldn't want to communicate it in a way that it sounds like a negative, but instead marketing it as a machine thats made to be sewn at higher speeds because of the auto oiler (you can always put a positive spin on anything). It might avoid a lot of confusion, or at least customers who may potentially buy a product like this and end up screwing it up, or at least being unhappy with their purchase. I just think thats bad marketing on their part that its not better said.

[Colt W Knight]

I would imagine the hobby leather worker is about .02% of companies like Consews business, so they probably just ignore us for the most part.

[dikman]

Good point, Colt, and probably true. Time is generally important to businesses, they will want machines that can run fast so the oiler will work as it should. The hobbyist, or person wanting to set up a small business from home, and has specific needs would be of no concern to the manufacturer, as it's such a small, niche market.

At least with older machines we know that they have to be oiled manually, so won't be lulled into a false sense of security by a machine that has an auto-oiler so you don't have to worry about manual oiling. (Theoretically.....).

[pcox]

I received my new Consew 1206 today. It oils great at the slowest the servo motor will run. About 1 stitch per second. Oil does not show in the window at that speed but I took the rear cover off and the oil is flowing great. I like the bobbin winder on top works well with no adjustment. tension is simple and effective. So far I have sewn good full 24 oz with 138 thread. So far looks great.

[EmergerFlyFishing]

I received my new Consew 1206 today. It oils great at the slowest the servo motor will run. About 1 stitch per second. Oil does not show in the window at that speed but I took the rear cover off and the oil is flowing great. I like the bobbin winder on top works well with no adjustment. tension is simple and effective. So far I have sewn good full 24 oz with 138 thread. So far looks great.

That's awesome to hear. I pick mine up on Tuesday. Can't wait to use it. Did you get a speed reducer for yours or anything or are you just using it as it came from the factory?

[pcox]

no speed reducer. I just bought the head and put it on a table I had with a servo on it. It is fine for me like it is if you are new to sewing you might like it slower. You do have to oil the walking foot linkage with an oil can. there is a simple valve on the bottom of the oil pump that needs to be closed to oil at low speed, it is covered in the manual how to do it, it's real easy. also an adjustment on the hook oiling.

Edited October 23, 2015 by pcox