Lined Belt Beginner Question

[natenaaron]

another silly questuon.

Why would you line a belt? gonna make a belt to practice stitching and can find how to line but not why.

[Chief31794]

I don't line belts per se, I make double layered belts, two leather pieces glued together back to back and then sewn around the edge. Many people like these for "Carry Belts" when carrying heavy pistols. Sometimes it's done to give the back a "finished" look, but bottom line is that it will be a stronger and more rigid belt with two layers even if the thickness remains the same (ie., 2 4/5 oz layers as opposed to one 8/10 oz layer).

Just my $.02 worth,

Chief

[JLSleather]

Yep, what he said I nearly always 'line' belts. I say nearly because I got a call from a guy who wants 6 belts NOT lined, NOT stitched, and some other stuff.

With tooled belts, it adds to the finished look (and makes it lay flatter longer). If you're looking to sell them, often people will prefer a lined belt.

Now, I'm not one of those 1/4" thick belt supporters. I've done them when someone asked for them, but I've also had those same people back to ask for a belt not quite so heavy. The double layer plus stitching makes a very solid belt, but 1/4" thick is more suited to towing your vehicle than carrying a firearm.

Most of mine are 12 oz (7/8 + 3/4) to 14 oz (double 7).

OH YEAH... I just passed up a request for a double layer belt with kydex sandwiched between the layers. I mention it here just because something like that would be one more reason to line a belt (and consider money belts also). But, I really can't be bothered to do this one, so I've recommended they contact George B. George, if you're not interested in something like this and would prefer not to be referred, just holler

[Oldtoolsniper]

What I learned by just doing it. This supports the advice already given. I made one lined belt and one unlined belt. Both belts are the same completed weight, about 10oz. One is from Herman Oak 9-10 oz belt leather and the other is Herman Oak non belt 5oz doubled up or lined. The lined belt is significantly more rigid and over three months has retained the shape much better than the single layer belt. The layered belt has zero stretch as well. The single layer has stretched a little. I've tested and worn both and I prefer the lined belt for those reasons. These are results based on wearing just the belt, not carrying a weapon or anything else on the belts.

That being said the belts need to fit the person and the holes need to be correctly positioned. One inch is a lot when it comes to fit. I didn't think it mattered based on all the "Genuine Leather" belts I owned in the past. It does and I have some non fitting belts to test patterns on to prove it. Real belts from real cow hide leather not pressed, glued, sanding dust leather don't stretch like Spanx to fit your belly tank. This is out the window if you use the belly of the hide for the belt it will stretch and stretch a lot. Use the correct leather and fitting and you will be happy as will your customer.

[natenaaron]

Thanks folks. Now I have another question. Oldtoolsniper says the belt is more rigid, Does this affect the way it curves or should the liner be a tad smaller than the outer layer to accommodate the bend around the waist? Or, should I laminate the two pieces as they hang over a barrel?

[JLSleather]

Other way around, actually. The outer layer is made a tad longer (NOT the inner layer shorter). I could explain that, and since it comes up so often maybe I'll just write the full version one day for everybody to see and a stack of goofs to debate and try to dismiss.

When I look for "rigidity" in a belt, I mean side to side, not end to end. I'm talking about one that doesn't "roll" beneath the belt loop (usually the very back one first to go).

[natenaaron]

SO I cut the liner to the actual finished length and the outer part longer?

[Oldtoolsniper]

Other way around, actually. The outer layer is made a tad longer (NOT the inner layer shorter). I could explain that, and since it comes up so often maybe I'll just write the full version one day for everybody to see and a stack of goofs to debate and try to dismiss.

When I look for "rigidity" in a belt, I mean side to side, not end to end. I'm talking about one that doesn't "roll" beneath the belt loop (usually the very back one first to go).

JLS hit the nail on the head with his explanation of "rigidity" that's a better explanation than mine. I made my lining bigger and then trimmed it to fit after glueing it and before stitching it. Right or wrong, I don't know but it has worked for me.

[Calait]

I don't line belts per se, I make double layered belts, two leather pieces glued together back to back and then sewn around the edge. Many people like these for "Carry Belts" when carrying heavy pistols. Sometimes it's done to give the back a "finished" look, but bottom line is that it will be a stronger and more rigid belt with two layers even if the thickness remains the same (ie., 2 4/5 oz layers as opposed to one 8/10 oz layer).

Just my $.02 worth,

Chief

Man has inflation taken effect over the past years over 100% the saying use to be a penny for your thoughts.

[natenaaron]

Other way around, actually. The outer layer is made a tad longer (NOT the inner layer shorter). I could explain that, and since it comes up so often maybe I'll just write the full version one day for everybody to see and a stack of goofs to debate and try to dismiss.

I've been reading searching and scratching my head over this since it was posted. I am just to thick to get it I guess. Can you explain?

[JLSleather]

Well, this aint the full version, but maybe enough to make sense. First, you need to grasp a few simple statements. I say simple because they are generally obvious to most, but for some reason people get a piece of leather and forget simple things

• Everybody has a size. You can get that size with a measuring tape.
• A belt needs to be BIGGER than the waist. If it was the same size, it wouldn't go around. PLUS, it needs to be bigger than the size of the waist PLUS the thickness of your jeans / slacks.
• Those people who say the thickness doesn't matter are either confused or lying. What they're telling you isn't true -- only question is whether or not it's intentional.

Say you're using 8 oz leather, which we'll use just because it's easy. If your waist measures 38" (which I'm using because it's the most requested) then the outside of that piece of leather will be 38 PLUS 1/8" all the way around. Math guys will tell you this is a little more than 38 3/4". Now, if you add another layer of 1/8", you have 39 5/8" (on the grain side). Which, clearly, is not 38.

But you can prove this to yourself easily. Take two strips of 8 oz leather long enough to go around you. 1" wide is enough for this. Wrap one around your waist, and cut it so that the ends meet at your waist (no overlap). Now, cut the other teh same size. Wrap the second one around the first one. There ya go

[JLSleather]

NOW then, note that in the above example, if we used 1/4" leather instead of 8 oz, then

• the waist would be a 38 (outside)
• the first layer would be 39 5/8" (outside)
• the second layer would be 41 1/8" (outside)

so clearly it MATTERS.

.

But, does it also matter on the INSIDE? Perhaps it helps to think PVC pipe.. If a pipe is 38" around the outside:

• with a wall thickness of 1/8", then the inside would have a diameter 1/4" less, and the distance around the inside would be 37.2",
• but if you have a wall thickness of 1/4" (or if you "sleeve" it with another 1/8" "layer"), then the inside diameter is 1/4" less again and the distance around the inside is about 36.4".

Clearly, a double thick ( 1/4" ) belt 38" long is not going to fit a 38" waist UNLESS it's 38" ON THE INSIDE.

Again, you can test this. Take those pieces of leather you cut in part 1. Curl up one piece on the table, so that it butts up flush, like it was on your waist. Hold it together with a small piece of scotch tape on the inside, just enough to hold it for a bit. Now, take the other strip, and curve it the same way, and put it INSIDE the first one WITHOUT overlapping it (good luck).

[JLSleather]

A few leather people seem to grasp this easy enough. But then they'll stop there. I've seen 'directions' for belts that say "add 2 inches" all teh way to "pants plus 4 inches". Maybe my customers a little smarter Nobody wants 6 inches of belt tag FLAPPIN' around on the end, so try to keep it reasonable.

In theory (assuming that the math is correct, that teh waist size is right (including thickness of jeans), and that you're using double 7/8 oz, then the shift in size from the inside to the outside would be about 1 9/16".

Some genius will be here in a minute to say ... just make it 2" longer and it'll be fine - AND IT LIKELY WOULD. As long as you measure and mark the OUTSIDE (grain side) of the OUTER layer AND measure teh "tag" end (or billet) AFTER marking the position of the holes. ONE belt, maybe doesn't matter for that. But what happens when you get an order for 6 belts that all need to match ...

Oh.. just a little simpler? Onions have layers. Peel one off. Is the rest the same size, or a little SMALLER?

[natenaaron]

Totally get it now. Thanks for the explanation.