Black Dye Spread Everywhere?

[JulieP]

Hi,

I was making a dog collar. I tooled it and then painted the edges and certain areas of the collar with Angelus leather paint. I let the paint dry for 24 hrs. I then carefully painted black angelus spirit dye to the whole middle of the collar, around all of the painted areas. It looked great!! I waited about 12 hours and then began to buff out the black dye and that is when it all went wrong. The black dye buffed onto all the painted areas past the point of fixing it. I spoke first to someone at Angelus, they were totally clueless. I then spoke to the place I ordered the paints and dyes from and she said she didn't think I could acheive the look i wanted that some black would always buff onto the paint.

I was just wondering if anyone might have a clue if I did something wrong or if that technique just won't work? I remade the collar and painted the whole middle with angelus black paint. I just like the look of the dye much better if I might be able to get it to work in the future.

Here are pics of the bad one and the one I painted.

Thanks so much for any insight!

[mlapaglia]

I would suggest this for the next time. Use vinegaroon to turn the leather black, Its a chemical reaction not a dye and you can make it yourself, Then paint the acrylic over the black. If you would rather use a dye do the black first and buff the hell out of it. put a coat of clear finish like resolene or any other finish that can be used as a resist, then paint the acrylic. Both ways will work, The vinegaroon will never bleed.

You can search on this site if you do not know how to make vinegaroon. Its really easy . Just vinegar and steel wool.

Michael

[JulieP]

Thanks Michael.

I experimented on a few scraps before I started and tried dying the whole piece first and then painting. I had a really hard time getting the acrylic paints to cover the black evenly. I tried putting white acrylic paint down first but I just couldnt seem to get the areas I wanted painted to look nice and even.

Julie

[mlapaglia]

Julie,

Well Im out of ideas, Im sure someone will be along that knows more than I do and can help you.

Michael

[JulieP]

Thanks for your help Michael!!

[Dwight]

Well, Julie, . . . two votes for dying first, . . . then clear finish (I use resolene), . . . then do the paint thing.

I refuse to do it any other way, . . . simply because this does not cause me any grief.

I also put the full finish on it, . . . not a "light" coat, . . . but rather a finish coat. Then when the paint drys, . . . voila, . . . done !!!

May God bless,

Dwight

[JLSleather]

Are you just absolutely determined to use "paint"? I prefer dyes for color. Even with black

[JulieP]

Awight,

I was wondering if you ever have any problems with the paint adhering to the finish? Not sure where I read that it was better to paint onto raw leather, that the paint sometimes does not do as well when painted onto a finish? I was also wondering if perhaps Im having problems because the area I was trying to inlay dye was not tooled? I'm using really nice 7-8oz leather

JLS Leather, I am trying to inlay dye with angelus black spirit dye . The area I dyed black buffed onto the rest of my piece.

Thanks for your input!!!!

[bex DK]

Those brands of dye are not within my experience, but with the dye I use and the colors that transfer excessively, I find it helps to buff with a cloth moistened with alcohol. Basically spirit dye thinner. There isn't enough to impact the dye absorbed into the leather, but it helps to remove the excess pigment left on the surface in the intense dyes. For the ROC dyes I use, blue is as bad as black and mahogany is pretty bad also. I'd "paint" the black dye so it avoided the areas you want another color then buff thoroughly with the alcohol moist cloth then a dry cloth. Then dye the "highlights" you want.

I do often dip dye an entire project a color then highlight stamped letters and such. I use acrylic paint for weird colors or if the letters are to be lighter than the background. Because the base is a spirit dye, it takes fine with my very thinned acrylic paints and building up many layers. If darker, I use spirit dyes. But if I paint white or something else very light and the background is one of those excess-dye colors, I need to do the alcohol trick thoroughly, especially IN THE LETTERS (the small letters are deep impressions and tend to collect extra excess pigment). Otherwise the dye bleeds into the paint. Had once a very messed up white letters on blue and had to redo it. Luckily not a big deal with these things--just poppers on horse ropes.

[JulieP]

Thank you bex DK! I will try buffing with alcolhol. It seemed either way I was buffing ALL of the black off. After buffing the leather barely seemed to absorb the dye. I was careful to shake the bottle and did several test strips where I thinned and used full strength. I just need to sit down with more strips and experiment. I really appreciate your input, thank you!

Julie

[bex DK]

My experience when I dip dye is that even with extensive buffing with alcohol-damp cloth, there is still plenty of dye left in the leather and the color has never got unevened or lightened. But my dyes might work a bit differently than yours. I am pretty sure mine are a scandanavian-specific brand of spirit dye. It really penetrates--if I cut the end off the dip dyed leather, there is usually only a thin strip that isn't dyed, depending on the thickness of the leather. If I surface dye, like with a paint brush or cloth, I usually thin the dye a bit and apply multiple layers, as I find it easier to get the dye even that way--if an area is light, I can give it extra without ending up with sharp transitions, especially if I work around with edges of the spot as the brush runs out of dye... But then I don't have all the extra pigments that rub off because the leather doesn't get more dye than it can absorb like when I dip dye.

Perhaps someone experienced with exactly your brand of dye could provide input. If you are buffing all the dye off, I would worry either something is wrong with the leather that it isn't taking the dye right (like a wax treatment or other surface treatment) or something is wrong with your dyes--a bad batch or it is too old or something. A wrong type of tanning would mean it wouldn't take tooling and stamping well, but I find I can tool latigo, etc., but it won't take dye because of the treatments. You could also try rubbing your leather with alchohol or acetane BEFORE dying, as that might break up anything on the surface that is preventing dye from penetrating.