Cutting Pattern

[sos]

Hey guys, I gave in and bought a whip making book, read Ron Edward's "how to make whips" three times now front to back & another 5 hours just pondering the pages out of order. I've got a quirt from Grant's book I made too, but he has to be the most vague maker of whips to bother writing a book...though to be fair, I was told Grant didn't write books, someone else cobbled them together, especially after he died.

Back to the point...

On page 14 & 15 of the 2nd edition, Edward's goes into some pattern methods.

I was pondering this and thought to myself, why doesn't he cut the strands by making rectangles and cutting across the diagonal of one corner to the opposite corner? See attached image.

Everyone I've talked too said that there hasn't been much change in whips for a few hundred years unless you count the past 15 years where the paracord whips have caught up to leather whips for cracking. So, I'm asking what the reason people don't use the diagonal method is...

I'll take any other musing's people have too!

I haven't decided if it's worth joining the whip maker's guild yet - otherwise I'd ping them. Thanks for the help in advance!!

-M

[rcsaddles]

When you cut the hide in a circle, you don't have any sharp corners or angles to contend with. Cutting in a circle will also yield more lace than any other way to cut. If you were to cut on the diagonal, when you braid, you would need to straighten those strands out and there would be a kink at each place you changed direction.

Now all of this is in my opinion but feel free to check me on this. I would like to see the results. Take a piece of leather and cut your rectangle and cut your lace on the diagonal. Use a circle of the same size in square inches and cut lace from it. Let us know how it turns out please.

[sos]

I'm not to the point where I've cut into my kangaroo yet - I got my hands on some super cheap goat hides and have been slicing from them...so I haven't used the circle pattern proscribed in 2nd edition of Ron Edward's book. The taper and the strength of the hides seems to be the issue. I don't have the super grade lace cutter / beveler / splitter @ $100-300 a shot, so me and my aussie strander are looking for ways to ensure the taper.

I've done some general circles from the inside out and some others from outside in and been displeased with the lack of even lace. I've scaled back to 3' snake whips primarily till I can work out the triangle method of cutting recommended for snake whips by Ron Edward.

I'll definitely update, I've got 7 projects before I'm redoing the taper on a belly & working the renaissance festival weekends for another month - so time at the work bench is limited.

Edit: I do cow for most of my whips, but the goat hide is the same size/shape as kangaroo that's I've got & that's why I'm doing a test in that

Edited September 11, 2015 by sos

[sos]

I haven't decided if it's worth joining the whip maker's guild yet - otherwise I'd ping them. Thanks for the help in advance!!

-M

Is anyone a member of the whipmaker's guild?

[rcsaddles]

I happen to be a member of the Australian Pl;aiters and Whipmakers Association.

[sos]

I happen to be a member of the Australian Pl;aiters and Whipmakers Association.

I saw them last year on here ... http://www.apwa.org.au/join-apwa.html, but then found this page too http://www.australianwhipcracking.org/Full_Join_AWPA.htm & couldn't justify paying that amount of money versus a good book with complete walk through or amazon prime for business shipping etc. Some questions I had that would help me with deciding if I'm joining their particular group ...

• How do you like them?
• Are there any difference between standard leather work forums with braiding or whip sections? (beyond more people for just whips)
• What's their forum post count per month/week/day like?
• Do they have electronic release's of the journal?
• Do they have an archive of their previous journals available? If so, does it cost extra?

Edited September 18, 2015 by sos

[rcsaddles]

The APWA is like most other groups. The amount of postings is directly related to the time of year and how busy people are. There will be information in the posts that you will not find anywhere else. I will tell you that I enjoy the stuff posted and use it some. Not all the posts are information I can use but someone somewhere will. You will not find the drama there that you do on Facebook or some other web sites.

They do not have the Journal abailable electronically and you can order previous journals. I don't remember the cost of those off the top of my head. The journal is a publication that consists of articles that members send in. I have submitted one article in the past. It may have twenty pages one quarter, 45 pages the next time and only 15 the next. It is directly related to the number of articles sent in.

I will take a shot in teh dark here and say that you would probably not be satisified with a subscription ot the APWA. As far as being well spent money instead of a book, it isn't, in my opinion. I am a member because I spent time in Australia and got instruction from many Aussies and continue to to this day. I prefer the Ron Edwards books and since he started the APWA, it is my way of supporting what he has done in the past.

I'm not trying to discourage you from joining, just being honest about it.

[sos]

Thanks a ton Joe!

I also have some Ron Edward's books

I've been scouring for blogs by leather workers & only found a few who do the whips so far, maybe 7 or 8...I want to see what goes on in people's heads - in that aspect the paracord community seems to be far more active - especially on youtube!

[rcsaddles]

There are a coule of whip braiding groups on Facebook. Look into that if you can. Most are pretty open with advise.

What Ron Edwards book has this in it? I am thinking of making some snake or signal whips in the very near future.

I've scaled back to 3' snake whips primarily till I can work out the triangle method of cutting recommended for snake whips by Ron Edward.

I hope I have that book and will look at home tonight. If you can tell me which book it will be a little easier.

I understand about using the goat for practice. It is cheaper than roo but you are correct about the cutting is a lot like roo.

I use the Aussie Lace cutter for my 6 and 7 foot stock whips. I can cut the taper with it pretty good. Of course it is not exact but when using the latigo for these whips, ir works really well.

If you want more info on cutters, splitters and bevelers, let me know and I can post a few pictures or try and do a video for you. I have learned how to bevel free hand on my stock whips. Not really tried on roo yet but will do that soon.

[25b]

What Ron Edwards book has this in it? ....... If you can tell me which book it will be a little easier.

From the first post in this thread...

Hey guys, I gave in and bought a whip making book, read Ron Edward's "how to make whips"

Oddly enough, it is called "HOW TO MAKE WHIPS"......by RON EDWARDS.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Whips-Bushcraft-Edwards/dp/0870335138/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1443123105&sr=8-1&keywords=ron+edwards+whip+braiding

Edited September 24, 2015 by 25b

[rcsaddles]

I just happen to have that book. I'll look at it tonight. I have found that Ron's books are the easiest for me to follow.

[sos]

I just happen to have that book. I'll look at it tonight. I have found that Ron's books are the easiest for me to follow.

Page 97 in the Ron Edward's "How to make whips" ... btw Joe, which edition do you have? I have the 2nd edition. I'm interested in hearing about the complicated cutting pattern Ron describes in the 1st edition book, but doesn't use in the 2nd.

Edited October 9, 2015 by sos

[rcsaddles]

I'll have to look at my book to see which one I have.

[sos]

Ok, so I've done a bunch of methods now ...

From Ron Edwards, “How to make whips “ ... here after known as HTMW

• Just cutting a straight line across the hide - great, but limited by the quality and size of hide. Does not work well on soft hides like goat/kangaroo.
• Circling all strands simultaneously from the outside on pages 55-57. On strong hides (kangaroo or cow if full grain you had split or split yourself), this is amazing once you learn a few tricks.
• Circling with the thumb nail as a guide on page 58. Not recommended beginners until they have done a few with a hand held strander.
• Triangle for snake whips on page 99. A happy compromise between the circling methods & just cutting straight lines across large hides. Needs special attention paid to the 3 corners if you are not tracing it. Otherwise a sheetrock straight edge & a pair of divider (compass) will give you flawless lace with very little skill required. If you get a bit of skill, you can put the blade at an angle and bevel at the same time...I'm not quite able to do this one for long pulls or corners.

Non Edwards:

• Circles from the inside I've also used the simple stranders from tandy's leather to work from the inside out...it gives up a 1 “x1 “ square of prime leather. Pretty reliable if the hide is strong. Don't bother with goat, unless you're really patient.
• Tracing a “U “ shape - My own style on a hide was to make a few marks on the back & do a mostly perfect cut with a sheet rock ruler. Extremely nice and for the short length I wanted awesome. This is really just a double length straight line cut. It's still faster than the triangle method and will allow you to utilize more of the hide.
• Straps into triangles - My own style again. This was the one I posted about above. The idea being if you have a perfect rectangle, then cutting from one corner to the opposite corner would create the perfect taper. You have to change the way you think about the measurements as the width you get out is the strap width, minus the minimum width you selected. Very easy to trace though!

For me as beginner knowing where to cut, training the hand to be steady, recognizing the bad chunks of leather & dealing with it are horribly simply - but difficult to do in practice. I know so much more than I did last year. I'm still not good even. Have to graduate to using just a cut strands and do the beveling while cutting off the circle.

My whips kind of look like junk to me, but I got called up to help talk about whips for a local thing last week!

Edited October 9, 2015 by sos

[rcsaddles]

It is always good to hear what other people are doing and what they make work. One of the reasons I like this forum is the sharing of inforamtion.

[sos]

I put it up on the blog, but it's not really coherent ... going to redo that post at some point, just that it got stolen so I can't remeasure the ends

https://madidos.wordpress.com/2015/10/28/whip-13-orange-goat/

[sos]

I'll have to look at my book to see which one I have.

Did you ever see what version you have? I'm still pondering it while I dig for my pack of razor blades. Been busy lately so not cutting new whips

[rcsaddles]

I looked at my book and did not see that cutting pattern in it. I didn't see which version it is but aI will try and remember to look tonight.

I use Ron's Whip making One book when I teach in Sheridan, Wyoming at the Rocky Mountain Leather Show.

I have cut out a very small four strand whip I want to make for a hat band. I'll take pictures as I go and post it when I am done.

Edited December 9, 2015 by rcsaddles

[sos]

I looked at my book and did not see that cutting pattern in it. I didn't see which version it is but aI will try and remember to look tonight.

I use Ron's Whip making One book when I teach in Sheridan, Wyoming at the Rocky Mountain Leather Show.

I have cut out a very small four strand whip I want to make for a hat band. I'll take pictures as I go and post it when I am done.

Thank you Joe! I've been learning ruby on rails & 3 other base langauages along with 17 helpers & 30ish add ons for webwork trying to pace myself at 30ish hours a week on that - so I'm less active currently.

I'm excited to see the hat band one! It's funny, as I'm at the one year mark for one of my mini's I did. About to take more photos of it too. Though, I'm afraid the design was a bit flawed. Once I finish moving my leather stuff, then do inventory. I move myself.