What Is The Point Of A Head/round Knife?

[JLSleather]

Perhaps that's where that phrase came from.. queer as a football bat

But you seem confused. I don't see anybody "anti- round knife. In fact, I view them like golf... no problem if the OTHER guy does it..

In the end, though, what about the LEATHER?

[LumpenDoodle2]

Horses for courses, isn't it.

All these tools were invented/adapted because someone wanted to make something that worked better for them. Doesn't mean what one person uses would work for me.

I know people who will only buy the top of the range tools, but their skill doesn't match the tool. I also know one chap who is basically a 'Valerie Singleton knicker elastic, and sticky backed plastic' * guy when it comes to tools. His work is amazing.

(* translation available to all non Blue Peter fans.)

JLS, you're right, it's the finished product that counts, and how you get there is up to you.

[johnv474]

The original questions were about what the uses are, and whether a round/head knife is useful. Plenty of replies have addressed both questions. Utility knives offer a great bang for the buck, in the way a cheap drill offers a lot of bang for the buck. Now that disposable sharp-ish blades are available commonly, there is a shift... though a year or two of blades pay for the round/head knife. If the original question is asked just to reinforce the opinion of "meh, not for me", then we could have side stepped asking/answering at all. What song can a piano play that a keyboard can't? None.

[Trox]

The first half moon shaped round/head knife for leather I have seen is from the 1500 BC (Before Christ that is), Egypt. Round Knifes from Europe the year 1400 AD, (After Christ) looks like the ones we uses today. This is a tool that is made for cutting leather in the fastest and best way possible. The majority of leather workers all over the world still uses this shape of knife today. I have all kinds of special leather knifes and more that 20 head and round knifes. All kinds of variations are tested and made during centuries of leather work. The shape of today have little room for improvement, only customizes for individuell taste. My bench favorite today is a 4 1/2 " old HF. Osborn knife, It's a very good knife. Leather craft is maybe the oldest craft of all, and the tools have had a very long time to develop. So this has nothing to do with YouTube. The round knife is the most versatile of all letter tool. The might be knifes that is better on individual cuts. However, the Stanley with a thin flexible blade is not one of them.

Tor

[JLSleather]

What song can a piano play that a keyboard can't? None.

The guy's question (in case it got lost)... was IF there was a significant advantage over other types of blades.

For me, there is not. The end.

But that topic 'loss' happens sometimes around here. Fella asked a simple question recently about a holster pattern and got handed like the history of gun powder. No, wait.. it was the availability of dummy guns for various models. Either way, anyone NOT having a pattern (the answer to the guy's request) could have simply NOT replied.

NOT have = NOT reply. Simple idea, doesn't always happen.

[Bob Blea]

For me the difference is very basic. With a utility knife I have to pull it towards me and with the round/head knife I push it away from me. Seems much safer.

[speckeye]

Hijacked or no, JLS, I just got to read Tor, Chief, Art,John,et al, and their honest ideas about what a head knife will do. I never thought to ask what a wiggling utility knife will do, but now I know there's people who'll buff and strop those beautifully wiggly blades.I bet setting a utility blade in a custom handle could be the bee's knees, if you please! My takeaway is that one might effectively make one's own blades and have a better experience, or pay the cost of a head knife and have a better experience learning the leather, or use that Stanley and be the happiest leather guy on earth, which you may well be, but the head knife market certainly takes a hit when you enter the room! For my part, I got suckered in on the HALF PRICE fake Damascus steel pretty black wood handled Al/Tandy header a few years back, and was rapt with pleasurable sensations as I mutilated a number of pieces, and stropped my way across the workshop with it, UNTIL I got hijacked, read this thread, and realized I was only hallucinating the whole thing. Thanks Guys!

[JLSleather]

JLS, I just got to read Tor, Chief, Art,John,et al, and their honest ideas about what a head knife will do.... but the head knife market certainly takes a hit when you enter the room!

I'm not following that at all. What exactly DID they say it will do, that something else wouldn't? Ah, you know what... never mind

[speckeye]

Their response, to me, indicates a that one makes a journey with any particular knife. Deeper meaning lies within learning the medium as it reacts to the tools, and skill builds upon itself through time and usage. You give us beginners the idea that we waste our time and money if we entertain the esoteric, but, these other teachers suggest experience is richer if you try the sacred tools and waste the time that you save in being steadfastly a ute-knife man. It's a legitimate disagreement, but edifying, thought not for head knife sellers.

[Windrider30]

Hmm a lot of information has been given and I thank each person for it, the main question really was what was the purpose of the head knife, to me they scare the shit out of me with that large of a cutting surface, I do not know if I will ever own one, but I do like to know the point behind some of the tools that seem to be " common" even if I do not use them myself. Personally I like the stanly knives as well as the rotery cutter blade. Each blade has it's uses at times, but I have never really seen anyone (other then youtube) use one and was interested in the whole point of such a large blade. As one person did point out the safety factor is actually an interesting one considering you are pushing the blade away from you rather then pulling in towards you...Next question is how often does the blade go dull to the point you need to sharpen it (I can't sharpen a penicil have the time so the Stanely blades make it so I do not have to worry about it)?

[WinterBear]

Scaring the bejeezus out of people is definitely one of its points. I'm scared of mine, so you better believe I am darn sure where my fingers are when cutting--result is I haven't cut myself with it, but I have cuts from just about every other blade I have. I do like cutting away from myself--I also find it easier to see where I need to cut and control the blade.

I don't cut a whole lot, mostly because I have a full time job and don't get to monkey about with leather as much as I'd like, but so far, a quick touchup on some extrafine automotive sandpaper glued to glass (since I haven't bought a waterstone big enough yet) every couple of months and a strop between projects is keeping it plenty sharp.

[Trox]

What I cannot understand is how you are able to control a flexible utility blade and get it spot on the pattern all the time. That's an achievement by its self, when it cuts in to the cutting board and flex away from cutting line. I would not manage to cut out the pattern without stopping, and we do not want stops and starts. We want to cut the pattern in one flowing movement for the best result. At least I would use a proper clicking knife for a cardboard pattern. I talked about the knife design and the advantages with it, that's not off topic. The fact that the shape has survived decades of modernizing speaks for it self. The fact that the majority of leather workers has discovered it advantages. The key to learning every craft is to master it's tools. The point with a round knife is that it is made for leather work. The steel hardness, not too hard to get as sharp as possible and soft enough to take stropping. But hard enough to keep an edge. It combines several knives in one, so it speeds up the cutting process. Up on it tip to round a corner, rolling on the long straight and skiving the end. When you have to pick up another knife, mine is till in my hand. When you have to change the blade, I bet that mine is still sharp. Or else I pull it a couple of time on my stropping board and it's good to go again. As for sharpening, I sharpening my knifes only once; then all it ever needs is stopping. To claim that is no point in an round knife, is the same as telling that you have not discovered this tool yet. It's the genius one tool I could not do without.

Tor

[zuludog]

Hopefully without adding too much confusion, Japanese leather knives are interesting. They cut by pushing or pulling, and are also used for skiving, but are simpler than a round knife.

I have an old block plane blade, and one day I might get round to turning it into a Japanese style leather knife

Put 'japanese leather knife' into YouTube's search box.

[lwm803]

I have one of those so called "cheap and useless" Tandy round knives. I also have better than average skills at putting a good cutting edge on various tools. It is probably due to that second fact that I find my "cheap and worthless" knife to be the first thing that I reach for when I need to cut a piece of leather. I only work with leather occasionally so am far from an expert but learning to use and actually using a round knife is worth the effort in accuracy of cuts, time saved, ease of use and yes even safety as long as you keep both hands behind the blade. It is quite simply the right tool for the job but by far not the only tool that can get the job done. Use what you will, it's the finished project that's important. If you are happy with that, then the tools you are using are the right ones for you.

[Oldtoolsniper]

Ok why under the Good Lord's green earth would you need such a knife? I mean really I use a stanily knife for every thing from 8 to 9 0z down to 2-3 oz leather and i have already had to have stitches because of the stanly knife..with a head knife I would be afraid to lose a finger!! or a hand! So what is the actual point and does it truely come in handy to have such a blade?

Because they look so cool, everyone should have a chocolate box full of em. Utility knives just have no style and after all it's style that matters.

[billybopp]

Now I know why I can never manage to get one when I'm lookin' for 'em on ebay Oldtoolsniper. You bought 'em all!!

Bill

[chiefjason]

Hmm a lot of information has been given and I thank each person for it, the main question really was what was the purpose of the head knife, to me they scare the shit out of me with that large of a cutting surface, I do not know if I will ever own one, but I do like to know the point behind some of the tools that seem to be " common" even if I do not use them myself. Personally I like the stanly knives as well as the rotery cutter blade. Each blade has it's uses at times, but I have never really seen anyone (other then youtube) use one and was interested in the whole point of such a large blade. As one person did point out the safety factor is actually an interesting one considering you are pushing the blade away from you rather then pulling in towards you...Next question is how often does the blade go dull to the point you need to sharpen it (I can't sharpen a penicil have the time so the Stanely blades make it so I do not have to worry about it

They work great for scaring customers that come in the shop too. I learned early on they want to know about it. So I pick it up, push it straight through piece of scrap leather, and tell them not to touch it. lol As to size, the round knife is a couple knives in one which has already been covered. And that takes some size. Another good part of it is that you can flip it over and use the other side instead of stopping and stropping. Flip the points if you will. If you let it get dull, you waited too long. I strop before any serious cutting project. And if I am doing a lot I may stop and touch it up in the middle. I can't tell you the last time I sharpened my round knife. It's probably been months since it's seen a stone. I have a leather strop, 800 grit wet/dry sandpaper, and a piece of cardboard that do all I need to do. As to the push cut, I feel like it gives me more control now that I have it figured out. In the beginning, everything about a round knife is intimidating. But I would not cut leather with anything else as far as making my holsters.

Their response, to me, indicates a that one makes a journey with any particular knife. Deeper meaning lies within learning the medium as it reacts to the tools, and skill builds upon itself through time and usage. You give us beginners the idea that we waste our time and money if we entertain the esoteric, but, these other teachers suggest experience is richer if you try the sacred tools and waste the time that you save in being steadfastly a ute-knife man. It's a legitimate disagreement, but edifying, thought not for head knife sellers.

To funny. But instead of esoteric, I find that the right tools help me do the job easier. Sometimes even better. I can assure you, I have made holsters with scissors, utility knives, toothbrush handles, drill bits, and various home made tools. Having a round knife, real molding tools, awls, edgers, and burnishers makes for an easier process and a better process IMO. This discussion fits into my idea of the difference between works and works better. For me, the round knife works better. I don't care if the end customer can tell the difference or not. I can in the time and effort saved. That's all that matters to me.

[Art]

The major advantage the round knife provides is the ability to see exactly where you are cutting, it seldom blocks the light and has a lot of control. I guess there is the second type of round knife, and I like it for thinner leather, that is the rotary cutter, not too easy to get bloody sharp though, bloody yes, sharp not easy.

Art

[RStevenson]

The major advantage the round knife provides is the ability to see exactly where you are cutting, it seldom blocks the light and has a lot of control. I guess there is the second type of round knife, and I like it for thinner leather, that is the rotary cutter, not too easy to get bloody sharp though, bloody yes, sharp not easy.

Art

Have you figured out a good way to sharpen them? Mine needs some love

[electrathon]

What exactly DID they say it will do, that something else wouldn't?

Here is a picture to answer your question. The cut edge was done on a stack of leather an inch thick, in one cut. No butchered up chopped edges that then require fixing, just a good clean edge. I would love to see a similar example done with a box cutter, band saw, kitchen knife or any knife of someone's choice.

I stated earlier, I have meany knives of many different kinds. I use them where they work best. A round knife is commonly my knife of choice. If fear is your prime factor stopping you from stepping up to use the best tool for the job it is simply a learning curve to lean safe handling of any knife, box cutter or round knife, please read, learn and practice. Your work will improve when you use the best tool for the job. Yes, you can use a lesser tool, but it is easier to do a better job with a better tool.

[Art]

The only thing that cuts leather any better than a round knife is a band saw with a knife blade in it. The problem is you never have the knife blade in the band saw when you need it, and changing it is like taking the Tom Cat to the vet. My first ever round knife was a Tandy purchase, back in the late '70s when Tandy was great. I bought a model 70 CSO because the person told me to and that it was the one knife I could use for everything, and he showed me how he used his, right there in the store. Well, if He had one, then I needed one too. I took it home and found to my dismay that it wasn't sharp, in today's terms, they would probably let you on an airplane with it. Well, I sharpened it, and being a knifemaker, I put one hell of an edge on it. I grabbed an 8 oz piece of leather and started making a sheath for it. It cut fine for an inch or two, then got harder and harder to push along the line that I had drawn. I mean damn, this is getting to be real work, and I did have my Wheaties that morning. I managed to grit my teeth and finish the cut, but I, this knife and my belt grinder were going to have a serious talk. It turns out that I had cleanly cut the leather, AND had cleanly cut out the 3/8 HDPE cutting board I was using to protect the bench which was showing a serious template for a head knife on the plywood top. I don't think I have ever done that kind of damage with a box cutter or a scalpel, or a clicker knife. The other thing here is that that old CSO took the stress of being in the HDPE and not snapping on the curve. I don't think one of the modern head knives would handle that situation as well. CSO knife, probably 1075 steel, and heat till the magnet drops off and quench in oil. Simple but it works.

Art

[Windrider30]

Ok for the rotery knife i use that a lot for the rhin stuff..as for sharping the blade I do not..when it no longer cuts right I just replace the blade.

[JLSleather]

Yes, you can use a lesser tool, but it is easier to do a better job with a better tool.

That's what I've been saying. At least there IS an answer... people have been NOT answering a simple question for days (actually, much longer, but days just on this thread). So, the round knife will cut through 1" of leather in a single pass. Fair enough - I'll keep that in mind in case I ever have need to cut through 1" of leather (at ALL). As a former tool and die maker, I "get" that more teeth in the cut = smoother cutting. And the shearing action built into a round blade is obvious. So, IF I ever have any reason at all to cut an inch of leather, I'll certainly be back to ask if anyone recommends a good one.

My question was simple - what can a round knife do that something else would not. Apparently, there IS an answer. Until now, we've just had a BUNCH of people DEFENDING the use of them WITHOUT any answer to the question. Not sure how not having one equates to inexperience or fear, but I can live with that. Hey, if being called 'chicken' is the only way to get a straight answer, it's all good

I guess they're like a "makers mark" stamp... Perhaps next month we could all discuss those.

[JLSleather]

Well, if He had one, then I needed one too.

Art

I think you have hit SMACK on the issue here, Art

Oh, I don't go back quite all the way to the 70's (just a kid) - so nowadays 'round these parts we say 4140 and D2 for steel.

Edited September 13, 2015 by JLSleather

[bullmoosepaddles]

@RStevenson I know this is a step away from the original question. But I sharpen my rotary knife blades on one of these. It holds up well and I have been using the original 5 blade pack I bought for over 5 years now.

I have a head knife. If nothing else this discussion has lead me to the point of sharpening it, getting over the fear and using it. The Stanley is becoming frustrating as I find myself with more work and less time.

The one inch cut is impressive I just trimmed some 3/8" thick glue ups last night. The Stanley sucked at keeping straight edges.

Thank you all for an interesting read.

http://www.staples.com/Orbital-Rotary-Blade-Sharpener/product_291202?cid=PS:GooglePLAs:291202&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=291202&KPID=291202&gclid=Cj0KEQjwvdSvBRDahavi3KPGrvUBEiQATZ9v0IZl1sqZQMgPqK-V8h59VcwtoVHpnpoDIQE1diuMeg8aAu_W8P8HAQ&kpid=291202