Members stickandtin Posted October 5, 2015 Members Report Posted October 5, 2015 Came across a durkop treadle operated leather machine. At least the woman selling it says it is used to sew leather. She has no idea how old it is or what model it is. Sent me some pics. It has what looks like a cylinder arm sticking out about a foot and a half. I've seen similar looking machines on this forum referred to as shoe patchers. The drive belt is missing, doesn't appear to have a needle. Is this thing worth looking at for $250? Are parts available? Can these machines be converted to run on electric? Quote
Members Constabulary Posted October 5, 2015 Members Report Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) I have a Mazda car - are parts available? How can we know without knowing what kind of Dürkopp machine you are talking about - at least one good picture would help (maybe). The ability to sew leather means nothing - all sewing machines can sew leather. Without any further information no one can help you. Edited October 5, 2015 by Constabulary Quote ~ Keep "OLD CAST IRON" alive - it´s worth it ~ Machines in use: - Singer 111G156 - Singer 307G2 - Singer 29K71 - Singer 212G141 - Singer 45D91 - Singer 132K6 - Singer 108W20 - Singer 51WSV2 - Singer 143W2
Members shoepatcher Posted October 5, 2015 Members Report Posted October 5, 2015 Send us pics of the machine so we can what it is. Pics tell a lot on a sewing machine. glenn Quote
Moderator Wizcrafts Posted October 5, 2015 Moderator Report Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Came across a durkop treadle operated leather machine. At least the woman selling it says it is used to sew leather. She has no idea how old it is or what model it is. Sent me some pics. It has what looks like a cylinder arm sticking out about a foot and a half. I've seen similar looking machines on this forum referred to as shoe patchers. The drive belt is missing, doesn't appear to have a needle. Is this thing worth looking at for $250? Are parts available? Can these machines be converted to run on electric? If the machine is a shoe patcher, it may be one of several types built by Adler. Some can only sew 1/4 inch, others can exceed 5/16. Some are tight and give longer stitches than worn out machines. Then, there are tiny bobbin versions and bigger than tiny bobbin versions. The arm may be 12 or 18 inches long. All of the patchers are top feed only, using claw like teeth on the foot to move the leather in any direction. Motorizing a treadle base will require adding a platform to hold the motor. Or, you can just buy a pedestal base already equipped with a servo motor and speed reducer. Still others drill into the back and mount a small domestic 1.5 amp sewing machine motor on the machine. It probably won't have enough torque to start the machine on its own, but will keep the stitching going after you hand wheel start it. Both of my patchers have that setup. Yes, it is probably worth $250. As for parts, probably, depending on the age, model number. and where it was built (pre-WW2, or post WW2 factories). The price of the parts may come as a shock though. Edited October 5, 2015 by Wizcrafts Quote Posted IMHO, by Wiz My current crop of sewing machines: Cowboy CB4500, Singer 107w3, Singer 139w109, Singer 168G101, Singer 29k71, Singer 31-15, Singer 111w103, Singer 211G156, Adler 30-7 on power stand, Techsew 2700, Fortuna power skiver and a Pfaff 4 thread 2 needle serger.
Members Constabulary Posted October 5, 2015 Members Report Posted October 5, 2015 Dürkopp made their own patcher like the Class 17 + Class 18. They are totally different compared with the Adler 30. Pictures would help to ID your machine Quote ~ Keep "OLD CAST IRON" alive - it´s worth it ~ Machines in use: - Singer 111G156 - Singer 307G2 - Singer 29K71 - Singer 212G141 - Singer 45D91 - Singer 132K6 - Singer 108W20 - Singer 51WSV2 - Singer 143W2
Members stickandtin Posted October 5, 2015 Author Members Report Posted October 5, 2015 Sorry about no pics. I'm generally on the internet on my iphone in a poor service area. Let me try to post photos. Thanks Quote
Members stickandtin Posted October 5, 2015 Author Members Report Posted October 5, 2015 One more Quote
Moderator Wizcrafts Posted October 5, 2015 Moderator Report Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) That patcher machine is an extremely old design; probably from the early 1900s. Parts may be non-existent. But, if all it needs is a needle and it has at least one good bobbin and bobbin case, it may sew. Edited October 5, 2015 by Wizcrafts Quote Posted IMHO, by Wiz My current crop of sewing machines: Cowboy CB4500, Singer 107w3, Singer 139w109, Singer 168G101, Singer 29k71, Singer 31-15, Singer 111w103, Singer 211G156, Adler 30-7 on power stand, Techsew 2700, Fortuna power skiver and a Pfaff 4 thread 2 needle serger.
Kohlrausch Posted October 5, 2015 Report Posted October 5, 2015 Sorry about no pics. I'm generally on the internet on my iphone in a poor service area. Let me try to post photos. Thanks Hi, I wouldn't buy it. While I do understand the wish for a patcher I would go with the ubiqitous Adler 30 or Singer 29. Proven designs and parts and manuals available. The Dürkopp you showed is a similar model to what a shoemaker in my neighbourhood has in his window - he says, it doesn't use bobbins at all but winds the thread to a spiral which is inserted into the lower arm of the machine. Threadfeeding is a bit of hit and miss due to unevennes in winding - which is why the Singer 29 an Adler 30 and their many lookalikes use bobbins. Greets Ralf C. Quote
Members Constabulary Posted October 6, 2015 Members Report Posted October 6, 2015 agree, I would not buy it when it is not fully functional. Almost impossible to find parts. If you are a user and not a collector I´d rather buy an Adler or Singer patcher. Personalyl I´d prefer a Singer patcher because a lot of parts are available (but depends on the model) and Adler parts are extremly expensive. Quote ~ Keep "OLD CAST IRON" alive - it´s worth it ~ Machines in use: - Singer 111G156 - Singer 307G2 - Singer 29K71 - Singer 212G141 - Singer 45D91 - Singer 132K6 - Singer 108W20 - Singer 51WSV2 - Singer 143W2
Members stickandtin Posted October 6, 2015 Author Members Report Posted October 6, 2015 Thanks everyone for all the guidance. Yes, I would prefer a machine that works, not one that would only be a decoration. Out of curiosity, I watched some youtube videos on older Adler and Singer patchers. I can see why a lot of people find them handy to have around. Pretty cool how you can swivel the foot around and sew in any direction. Since posting this thread I have also come across an old Singer 29-4 and a black Adler 30-1. Seller asking $500 for the Singer and other seller says make offer on the Adler. Several people have commented on how expensive Adler parts are vs. Singer parts. Can you give me some examples. Thanks. Quote
Members Constabulary Posted October 6, 2015 Members Report Posted October 6, 2015 Sure! My favorite examples are: Singer 29K71 needle bar 25 GBP in the UK - thats about $38 https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/82031-NEEDLE-BAR-COMPLETE-SINGER-29K-71 Singer 29K71 shuttle carrier for 25.40 GBP in the UK - thats about $38.60 https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/82177%3dCA29-8605-SHUTTLE-CARRIER-SINGER-29K-TOWA Adler 30-1 needle bar for Adler 30-1 321.73€ Germany - thats about $361 http://www.wdn.de/artinfo.php?artnr=A%20%2013827 Adler 30-1 shuttle carrier for 265.24€ in Germany - thats about $297.50 http://www.wdn.de/artinfo.php?artnr=A%20%2015246 The Adler prices for spare parts are ridicules! Keep in mind that the 29-4 (w/o K suffix) is an US made machine and is for sure several decades old and not all parts from the more modern 29K71 will fir for the older 29-4 or 29K4 I´d recommend a 29K patcher in the 60´s or 70´s sub class but these are for sure harder to find. You for sure can find many threads about Singer and Adler patchers here in the forum - basically the stitch length is an good indicator for how worn a machine is. When new they produce 5 stitches per inch (Singer 29K and Adler 30). But I would not buy a patcher when the produce more than 6 or 6.5 stitches per inch except you can live with these short stitches. Quote ~ Keep "OLD CAST IRON" alive - it´s worth it ~ Machines in use: - Singer 111G156 - Singer 307G2 - Singer 29K71 - Singer 212G141 - Singer 45D91 - Singer 132K6 - Singer 108W20 - Singer 51WSV2 - Singer 143W2
Members stickandtin Posted October 6, 2015 Author Members Report Posted October 6, 2015 Thanks for the price comprisons. Unbelievable how much more expensive Adler parts are. Quote
Kohlrausch Posted October 6, 2015 Report Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) The Adler prices for spare parts are ridicules! Well, to make this a fair comparison one would have to add that these were not original Singer parts but far east knock offs. They are not available for all Singer 29s, at least not specified as such by the sellers. The Singer 29 knock off parts I have bought off College Sewing fit into my Adler 30-1 with no problem, but I have also heard from people, who couln't even make College Sewing parts to fit into the machine that they were specified for. And these guys were no tinkerers but (leatherworking) sewing machine professionals. I'ld go with the better stitcher. Ask the sellers to set maximum stitchlength, let it punch 11 holes and measure the distance between first and last hole. Should be two inches. If it is two inches, buy immediatlely - the machine ist good. If it's between 1 3/8" an 1 37/64" (don't these fractions drive you crazy?) it's worth asking for a reduction, if you can live with the stitchlength. Anything less is asking for trouble. There may be more parts worn out than fixing solutions have been postet on the internet. I know, because I have a not yet publicly documented wear problem reducing stichtes to 8 spi. Greets Ralf C. Edited October 6, 2015 by Kohlrausch Quote
Members shoepatcher Posted October 6, 2015 Members Report Posted October 6, 2015 To let everyone know, that is a Durkopp shoe patcher, either a 17 or 18 class. They use either system 81 or system 88 needles. There are no parts being made today that I know of anywhere. Hitler seized the company in 1933 and turned it into a bayonet factory. It was bombed in 1942 or 43' and destroyed. Durkopp never again made the shoepatcher until they bought Adler. In fact, the 30 class Adlers today are no even made by Adler. Rather, they are made under contract to Adler by another Germany company. That is one reason parts are so damn expensive!!! I hope to do something on Adler 30 class parts when I retire in 2 years. I also want to look at Durkopp and Bradbury parts. I have some parts now for the 30 class Adler's that are no longer made. glenn Quote
Members stickandtin Posted October 7, 2015 Author Members Report Posted October 7, 2015 I love this forum! Quote
Members pcox Posted October 23, 2015 Members Report Posted October 23, 2015 I have a 17 and it is a good machine but there are no parts anywhere. I made 5 parts for mine. It now has a singer 29 hook and bobbin but that has to be fit by hand not for most people. I would not pay half that much for it. Quote
Members stickandtin Posted October 23, 2015 Author Members Report Posted October 23, 2015 I don't know the first thing about sewing machine mechanics or making modifications to them. After the advice I got from everyone here, I passed on the machine. Quote
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