Pfaff 28

[LeatherLegion]

Just came across one of these machines , set up with a roller foot, and seems to work fine...without thread...The seller didn't have any thread and it never crossed my mind to bring thread with me. The needle that's in the machine right now is a size #21

Anybody here familiar with these machines ? I am looking into using it for leather , anywhere from 3oz to 8oz max (in 1-3plys probably) with #69 or #92 thread .

I have the CB 4500 that works fine on 10oz with the #138 thread but I need something else with a cylinder arm for lighter leather.

I am gonna go back tomorrow and try it with some #92 using the needle that's already there ... if you guys think it's worth it.

Is there anything else I should keep my eyes open for?...any details and info (needle type , bobbins and so on...) would be appreciated

Thank you !

Edited November 7, 2015 by LeatherLegion

[Constabulary]

I once owned one - nice little machine but it uses extremely small bobbins. I still have the German manual. The bobbins are about the size of the 29K bobbins or even smaller. The machine is using the same hook as the Singer 17. Definitive a light leather machine that will fork for #69 or#92 thread.

The original needle was System 805 (flat shank) or 690 (round shank). But I think you can set it up for other needle systems as well - maybe for the common 135x17 but not 100% certain because of the shank diameter.

[LeatherLegion]

Thanks ! The machine has the clutch motor that I will probably end up replacing with a servo if I am gonna end up buying. I tried to Google needles for Pfaff 28 but I couldn't find anything...nothing on EBay either...same goes for bobbins. Also there is just one video on YouTube ..they can't be that rare ...lol...

It's the machine worth the $600 the seller is asking ?

Thanks again !

Edited November 7, 2015 by LeatherLegion

[Evo160K]

http://s2.vsmgroup.com/VSM/Pfaff/pfaffmanual.nsf/1fd5659e6f37141041256697003e64c0/ab8a0d9f52ec852f852575f30053ba19/$FILE/Pfaff%2028%20.PDF

[Constabulary]

I think $400-$500 should be a reasonable price but depends on the condition and accessories that come with the machine. You also want to change the motor so Is probably offer $400.

[Kohlrausch]

Thanks ! The machine has the clutch motor that I will probably end up replacing with a servo if I am gonna end up buying. I tried to Google needles for Pfaff 28 but I couldn't find anything...nothing on EBay either...same goes for bobbins. Also there is just one video on YouTube ..they can't be that rare ...lol...

It's the machine worth the $600 the seller is asking ?

Thanks again !

Hi,

sometimes I get the impression that prices in Germany and the USA differ by a factor of 4. I think the Pfaff 28 is a totally outdated piece of equipment with very limited use. I would only buy it if it is available for next to nothing or if you know exactly why and how a Pfaff 28 is the solution for one of your sewing problems.

If I don't mix things up the Pfaff 28 goes back to the Singer 17. Singer made them in pairs: The Singer 17 being the usual rightstanding machine, the Singer 18 being a mirrored copy standing on the left side of the table. The usual suspects copied this design: Adler 47 and 48, Pfaff 23 and 24. I have a Pfaff 23. It is so close a copy to the Singer 17 including subclasses and the quirky external reverse leverage that I believe you can swap parts. Actually, when I bought it, its acessory-box contained Singer and Pfaff parts all mixed up.

Later Pfaff came up with the couples 25/26 and 27/28. As far as I can tell from photos and scanned sales brochures Pfaff modernized the castings to accommodate for changing tastes but didn't do much to the internal machanics.

So essentially you would be buying 19th century technology comparable to the well documented Singer 17. It was designed to make purses ore similar stuff. I think 600 Dollars should get you a better machine or the Pfaff 28 should be way cheaper. If it comes with a fully functional treadle I'ld pay no more than 150 USD, if the stand is with the clutch motor only I would'nt pay more than 100 USD. I think, unless you have a quirk for old technology it's wasted money, you woiuld be better off buying a Pfaff 335 or similar.

This is one of the few instances of when I think that a professional machine really doesn't do much more than a strong household sewing machine like a Pfaff 332 or similar.

Here's a manual of the Pfaff 28: http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.handleidingzoek.nl%2Fviewer%2F40202%2Fbg1.png&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bedienungsanleitu.ng%2Fpfaff%2F28%2Fanleitung&h=1584&w=1224&tbnid=Axd0tud9Vi3H8M%3A&docid=avo7pitJJXBeZM&itg=1&ei=DyY_Vu70N4qzsQGUn52ICQ&tbm=isch&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=1179&page=1&start=0&ndsp=43&ved=0CF8QrQMwFGoVChMIrrihlNGAyQIVilksCh2UTweR

Greets

Ralf C.

[Constabulary]

I have sold mine for 299€ in a heart beat on Ebay (car upholsterer 50km away from be bough it). I wouldn´t consider the Pfaff 28 as outdated - for sure not up to date but not outdated since the technology in most sewing machiens remained the same. But thats the just my opinion.

[jimi]

Sorry but i have to agree with Kohlrausch, 400-500 bucks is a rip off for a type singer 17,18 or whatever.

[Constabulary]

Well, Sieck in Germany sells them for way more. That does not mean they are worth the price but I´d still say they are worth more than $150. BTW - mine was much nicer than this one

http://www.sieck.de/en/machines/sewing/arm-type-machines/details/1287/

Edited November 8, 2015 by Constabulary

[Kohlrausch]

Well, Sieck in Germany sells them for way more. That does not mean they are worth the price but I´d still say they are worth more than $150. BTW - mine was much nicer than this one

http://www.sieck.de/en/machines/sewing/arm-type-machines/details/1287/

Hi,

I think, Sieck cater for corporate customers who set up an entire factory, order all they need and negotiate an all-inclusive price. They are offering the machines for the advertized price. What they sell them for we don't know. Sieck also offer a Pfaff 38 for 1150 Euro - about ten times the German Ebay-Kleinanzeigen (Craigslist) price. Sieck just don't sell it for the four-digit-price.

Constabulary, you are a good father to your sewing machines. Once you have been all over them they may be a good buy for your asking price. But you haven't worked over the machine in question.

One would have to know the needle system for a more detailed analysis. If it is a subclass for the flatshanksystem 805 this may well mean that LeatherLeagion would be stuck with householdneedles 15x1 and their limited choice of sizes and leathertips.

Greets

Ralf C.

[Constabulary]

no big deal - just my 2 cents.

[Kohlrausch]

Sorry but i have to agree with Kohlrausch, 400-500 bucks is a rip off for a type singer 17,18 or whatever.

Well, there is a Singer 17 on Ebay right now with one day left, so we will soon learn what the market says.

Greets

Ralf C.

[Kohlrausch]

Thanks ! The machine has the clutch motor that I will probably end up replacing with a servo if I am gonna end up buying. I tried to Google needles for Pfaff 28 but I couldn't find anything...nothing on EBay either...same goes for bobbins. Also there is just one video on YouTube ..they can't be that rare ...lol...

It's the machine worth the $600 the seller is asking ?

Thanks again !

Hi,

to put this in perspective: 600 for the machine plus servo plus speed reducer and you end up around 850 to 900 USD. 995 would get you a brand new Cowboy CB 2500 complete with servo and speed reducer. That's why I think the seller's asking price is too high.

As for the bobbins try cutex: http://www.cutexsewingsupplies.com/singer-17-17u-18-18u-and-68-class-sewing-machine-bobbins-2073-pack-of-10

Greets

Ralf C.

[Constabulary]

I have seen the Singer 17.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Singer-17-16-Passepartout-Nahmaschine-Ledernahmaschine-/221929814704?hash=item33ac0c3ab0:g:CFMAAOSw5VFWNx4F

I´m sure it will not sell (damn I could use the bobbin winder for my 34K )

There for sure is not a huge market for these light duty machiens and this Singer 17 is much older than the Pfaff 28. I´d say the Pfaff 28 is a technically advance variant or clone of the Singer 17. You either need it or you don´t need it. Same with bar tackers or the like. No one buys them but if you need one and find the right one it´s worth the money.

I think you don´t need a speed reducer for these light duty machines.

[Kohlrausch]

I have seen the Singer 17.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Singer-17-16-Passepartout-Nahmaschine-Ledernahmaschine-/221929814704?hash=item33ac0c3ab0:g:CFMAAOSw5VFWNx4F

Naaa, ment this one: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Singer-Industrial-Sewing-Machine-17-41-Leathers-Upholstery-Heavy-Duty-Commercial-/262124862905?hash=item3d07dbfdb9:g:pWEAAOSwlaxWN9fk

Here's the parts manual: https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CEwQFjAIahUKEwiIrojtzYHJAhUovXIKHT7ZDsM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhensewfiles.com%2FPDFs%2FPfaff%252028.pdf&usg=AFQjCNE762KJ-YPw1NC2ptLpdgtvVXO9ug&cad=rja

Also, to assess the price correctly we would have to know whether it ist 600 USD or CAD.

I paid 75 Euros for mine, which is about 107 CAD.

620 USD got me a Pfaff 23, a Pfaff 138, a Pfaff 145, an Adler 30-1 and an Adler 5, four tables and two motors, the motorized 145 being the most expensive of the lot @ USD 270.

Greets

Ralf C.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Kohlrausch

[LeatherLegion]

Never expected that much feedback...Thanks again !!!! I might try to push my luck and offer $300 ...if it turns out to be working properly...I only care for the cylinder arm ..otherwise I would not be interested

Here is a picture of it's "tag" ...maybe helps figuring out the subclass

Edited November 9, 2015 by LeatherLegion

[Darren Brosowski]

The Singer 17/18 class might be as old as the hills but they are still in production as the Seiko TE/TF.

I believe that they are primarily used in the shoe industry.

The bobbin is readily available as is the long beak shuttle.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Doz-Singer-17-long-beak-bobbins-/221352870282?hash=item3389a8c18a

[Kohlrausch]

Never expected that much feedback...Thanks again !!!! I might try to push my luck and offer $300 ...if it turns out to be working properly...I only care for the cylinder arm ..otherwise I would not be interested

Here is a picture of it's "tag" ...maybe helps figuring out the subclass

Hi, you're trying to buy one, Rossr is trying to sell one. Maybe you two can team up and both be happy?

Greets

Ralf C.