alexitbe Posted November 15, 2015 Report Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Hello All, I have tried everywhere and made a few expensive mistakes so now I must get help from people who know... I need a needle to fit my Singer 46k "fur" cup feed overseamer. Fortunately it came with a needle already installed. It is very precious as its my only one. The shank diameter is 1,08 mm Length to hole 30.0 mm Total length is about 36.6 mm I have looked at what other overseamers use and... None of the Bonis 292 needles fit this length. The nearest is the conu 01:30MA with a length to the hole of 27.9 mm Tried a needle of the same period as the sewing machine (100 yrs ago) I have bought a 12x1 needle and that does fit either. I have looked at light industrial sewing machines and have found the following: Canu 04:45 or 88x1 Diameter is 1.62 mm (is this going to be a problem to fit?) Length to hole is 29.6 mm (I think this is close enough) Should I try this one? Do you think this is close enough or can you suggest another? Thanks for making it to the end. Alex Edited November 15, 2015 by alexitbe Quote
Members TinkerTailor Posted November 15, 2015 Members Report Posted November 15, 2015 Here is a page of parts lists for most of the 46k variants. There are alot of different 46k machines, which subclass is yours? Yours looks like a 46k15 from the picture. This page list a needle size of Needle = canu 08:65 - system 459 r - 1567 - SY 6520. Hope this helps. TT Quote "If nobody shares what they know, we will eventually all know nothing." "There is no adventure in letting fear and common sense be your guide"
alexitbe Posted November 15, 2015 Author Report Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Hi Tinker Taylor Thank you for taking the time to look at my problem and the links(last one I have not seen before). It looks remarkably like the 46k24 in your link. Maybe its a later replacement for it? The recommended 459r needles are 3.5 mm longer to the hole att 33.5mm and have a slighlty larger shank diamter of 1.40 mm. Will this not be too much? My sewing machine is a 46k45. It is a double thread machine. I just looked at the partslist very carefully and don't know how I missed it before as I ahve looked at it a 100 times. The official needle system is: 215x5 in sizes 18,19&21. I think the needle that came with the machine is correct because it has Simanco 18 written on it. I measured the needle diameter and its 0.8 mm. However, this does not match the singer conversion table which says size 18 should be 110 nm. Anyway I do have a packet of 215x15 needles and the shank diameter is correct at 1.0 mm, the distance to the hole is 27.9mm. Interestingly this is the same distance as the Bonis 292 for the older machines (canu 01:30ma), aka ns292. This is also the same length as for 46x5 singer system, which is for some 46k fur machines and I bought hoping it would fit. Does anyone know an alternative to 215x5 system? A table of Singer 46k overseamers and their recommended needle size. The numbers I give of those that I have measured. There will be some error in these. machine needle system length to hole shank diameter total length K15 46x3 K30 46x5 K37 215x9 or 88x1 K38 215x13 K39 46x5 27.9 mm 0.96 mm 34mm K45 215x5 30.0 mm 1.08 mm K46 215x15 27.9 mm 0.98 mm 32.4 K48 215x17 K50, K51 16x21 K52 215x21 K54 46x5 Cheers ALex Edited November 15, 2015 by alexitbe Quote
Members TinkerTailor Posted November 15, 2015 Members Report Posted November 15, 2015 Someone may have adjusted the machine for a different needle, And perhaps you could do the same. I know nothing about your machine, however this is done in some old machines. Quote "If nobody shares what they know, we will eventually all know nothing." "There is no adventure in letting fear and common sense be your guide"
Members TinkerTailor Posted November 15, 2015 Members Report Posted November 15, 2015 If you can find a needle with the right shank but is a little too long, you may be able to grind/file a bit off the end to get it to seat into your needle bar further and align the eye properly. Just go slow so as to not overheat the needle and ruin temper. If you can't touch it it is too hot, put it in water for a second or two. Quote "If nobody shares what they know, we will eventually all know nothing." "There is no adventure in letting fear and common sense be your guide"
alexitbe Posted November 15, 2015 Author Report Posted November 15, 2015 Messing with sewing machines has not been very successful for me so it will be the last thing that I do. I like the idea grinding the needle down. The problem is finding a long version of a needle with 1 mm diameter. Is there a website where I can search needle systems on diameter? Thanks Alex Quote
Moderator Wizcrafts Posted November 15, 2015 Moderator Report Posted November 15, 2015 There has to be a simple means of loosening the needle bar and repositioning it for the needles you are able to obtain. Quote Posted IMHO, by Wiz My current crop of sewing machines: Cowboy CB4500, Singer 107w3, Singer 139w109, Singer 168G101, Singer 29k71, Singer 31-15, Singer 111w103, Singer 211G156, Adler 30-7 on power stand, Techsew 2700, Fortuna power skiver and a Pfaff 4 thread 2 needle serger.
Members gottaknow Posted November 15, 2015 Members Report Posted November 15, 2015 I'll take a look at my big reference book of everything Singer tommorow and see what I can come up with. Regards, Eric Quote
alexitbe Posted November 15, 2015 Author Report Posted November 15, 2015 Thank you very much, Everyone... I wait in hope... However, I cannot even find another sewing machine that uses that particular system. Its extraordinary that they would produce another needle for just one machine. It might be important to mention that the official parts list describes the machine as "for home manufacturing." However, to me, it does not seem like a domestic machine. It is infact the largest of my overseaming machines including the Strobel fine fur sewing machine (0.5-2.7 spi). It is further described as "for seaming hoisery with selvedge edge." Apart from the hand rotated wheel it looks exactly like 46k24 mentioned above and this is for medium weight fur. But the recommended needle for that is 3.5 mm too long. To give you some idea of what it can do and thus its robustness I have measured the spi. I can go from 14.5 spi (1.5 mm stitch length) This seems very robust for sewing underwear (Hoisery?) to 7.5 spi( 4mm stitch length). Thank you for your time and help. Enjoy what is left of the weekend. Alex Quote
alexitbe Posted November 15, 2015 Author Report Posted November 15, 2015 In response to Wizcraft... If I move the needle bar forward won't I have to adjust the timing of the looper?... This grips me with fear... Cheers Alex Quote
Moderator Wizcrafts Posted November 16, 2015 Moderator Report Posted November 16, 2015 In response to Wizcraft... If I move the needle bar forward won't I have to adjust the timing of the looper?... This grips me with fear... Cheers Alex Possibly and possibly not. The looper timing should be related to the position of the eye of the needle. If you move the needle bar to accommodate a longer or shorter needle and place the eye in the same horizontal position when the looper arrives, the timing should still work. Quote Posted IMHO, by Wiz My current crop of sewing machines: Cowboy CB4500, Singer 107w3, Singer 139w109, Singer 168G101, Singer 29k71, Singer 31-15, Singer 111w103, Singer 211G156, Adler 30-7 on power stand, Techsew 2700, Fortuna power skiver and a Pfaff 4 thread 2 needle serger.
Members jimi Posted November 16, 2015 Members Report Posted November 16, 2015 Hi There alexitbe, i have a 45k49 which uses 215x15 needles, can i ask where you bought them as they seem difficult to get hold of?? and on the underside of the needle holder on this machine if i can remember correctly, there is a small stop for the length of the needle which screws out so maybe this could be to allow for longer needles?? not sure. i will take a look. jimi Quote
alexitbe Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Posted November 16, 2015 Hi Jimi Lucky you! 215x15 are used much more in the 46k series. I got mine from College sewing in the uk. I beleive they are still on sale. They wanted to get rid of this old stock so I would buy them now if I were you. If you have no luck I will ask around... I hope that helps. Alex Quote
Members jimi Posted November 16, 2015 Members Report Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Hi Alex, thanks for the info. i will give them a buzz. here are some pictures i have just taken, maybe your needle bar is similar?? Edited November 16, 2015 by jimi Quote
alexitbe Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Posted November 16, 2015 Hi Jimi and Wizcraft, Wizcraft: On second reading I now understand what you are saying...It makes sense assuming that the bit from the hole to the point is roughly the same as the old needle. I have been sewing a patch today and see that the "needle clamp or holder" touches the body of the machine when needle is furthest away and is a couple of mm away from the feed disk edge when the needle is nearest the user. I think this means I cannot adjust the needle bar. I think the only solution then is to go for a needle that is the same length or shorter. If shorter I can just move it a few mm forward from the back stop in the needle clamp. I would really like to know if the needle I have is actually the 215x5 needle or not. However I don't know how to find this out. If not I would not be so anal and would just go for a period 292 needle. Jimi: The needle clamp is much different on mine. I would like to post some pics to show you, and of the patch I have just done. However , I cannot find my USB camera attachment. Maybe tmrw. Is the screw you point to the adjust for the stroke of the needle bar? Cheers Alex Quote
Members jimi Posted November 16, 2015 Members Report Posted November 16, 2015 the screw is to loosen the needle bar and the correct position (if i am not wrong) is in the other picture where the needle tip is at the first line and the looper is coming in on the needle at the second line. at least that is what i remember from the manual and it sews this way no problem. sorry but i aint got a clue if that is a 215x5 needle you got there??? if your needle is long and you cannot move it backwards, why not try the 215x15 and move it a little forwards?? Quote
Members tmoffitt Posted April 19, 2020 Members Report Posted April 19, 2020 On 11/15/2015 at 7:02 AM, alexitbe said: Hello All, I have tried everywhere and made a few expensive mistakes so now I must get help from people who know... I need a needle to fit my Singer 46k "fur" cup feed overseamer. Fortunately it came with a needle already installed. It is very precious as its my only one. The shank diameter is 1,08 mm Length to hole 30.0 mm Total length is about 36.6 mm I have looked at what other overseamers use and... None of the Bonis 292 needles fit this length. The nearest is the conu 01:30MA with a length to the hole of 27.9 mm Tried a needle of the same period as the sewing machine (100 yrs ago) I have bought a 12x1 needle and that does fit either. I have looked at light industrial sewing machines and have found the following: Canu 04:45 or 88x1 Diameter is 1.62 mm (is this going to be a problem to fit?) Length to hole is 29.6 mm (I think this is close enough) Should I try this one? Do you think this is close enough or can you suggest another? Thanks for making it to the end. Alex Did the 88x1 work? Quote
Members Bert51 Posted April 20, 2020 Members Report Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) This may help when comparing needles. The measurement from Butt to the top of the eye is what is used. Bert. Edited April 20, 2020 by Bert51 Quote
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