Why Are My Rivets Deforming?

[JerseyFirefighter]

For some reason, no matter how I address this issue my double cap rivets constantly deform, and are 50/50 on holding tight. Background info: Using large double cap rivets with 5/16ths posts and a craftool 8105-00 setter kit with the concave setter. Im also setting on a large thick piece of granite on top of my workbench with very little flex. I get horribly inconsistent results. I have tried with the posts sticking out past the leather 1/8th of an inch, ive cut the post near flush with the leather. I have tried setting post side and setting cap side. I have also tried different setting pressures and have made certain the tool was straight when setting. Does the photo below give any indication as to what im doing incorrectly?

I have little issues setting rivets crudely (hammer to rivet head on granite slab for a flat finish however after the first hit I see a slight deformity and the second flattens it out just fine. Any help would he appreciated. I just dont trust rivets for securing two pieces together while I have these results (plus it looks pretty rough)

[JerseyFirefighter]

Sorry thought the pic uploaded

[electrathon]

The shape of the cap in your setting tool is not exactly the same shape as the rivet cap. Press it into the tool and the rivet tries to take the shape it is pressed into.

[JerseyFirefighter]

I suspected the tool might have been a problem, I had thought using the large tandy rivets with a tandy setter kit would be a pretty good match. Any recommendations for either a universal setter for large/medium double caps or two specofic sizes? I dont want to even look at a deformed rivet ever again! thanks for your insight.

[electrathon]

No good answer here. You will find that this happens sometimes even from order to order, determining who the particular supplier is. I have experienced this same issue. The issue is the snap is flatter than the setter cap, so the snap top stretches when pressed in.

[TinkerTailor]

My guess is that you haven't put enough force on it. By the looks of the tiny circle on the top, the rivet shaft is barely deforming. It needs to mushroom out inside the cap to hold the rivet on. Try to go back in with your setter and hit it a few more times harder and see if this helps. This will also cause the rest of the cap to deform into the shape of the rivet set. The backside usually has a small divet but the cap side is nice for me. Also, steel rivets will need more force than solid brass ones.

[Art]

Block of Steel

Drill Hole bigger than cap about 1/2" or more deep

Optional -- mill 4 to 8 channels 1/4" long radially from hole

Fill hole (and channels if you did that) with JB Weld

Coat cap or head that you want to support with release agent, (Johnson's Paste Wax, Vaseline, WD-40, PAM, Silicone)

Press whatever you are making the anvil for into to JB Weld to where it will be flush

Let Dry

Pop out the Stud, or Button, or Rivet head or whatever

Touch up with Sandpaper, File, Whatever.

Use this (leave the JB Weld in the steel block) as your new anvil.

Art

[electrathon]

Block of Steel

Drill Hole bigger than cap about 1/2" or more deep

Optional -- mill 4 to 8 channels 1/4" long radially from hole

Fill hole (and channels if you did that) with JB Weld

Coat cap or head that you want to support with release agent, (Johnson's Paste Wax, Vaseline, WD-40, PAM, Silicone)

Press whatever you are making the anvil for into to JB Weld to where it will be flush

Let Dry

Pop out the Stud, or Button, or Rivet head or whatever

Touch up with Sandpaper, File, Whatever.

Use this (leave the JB Weld in the steel block) as your new anvil.

Art

Great idea Art

[Art]

Great idea Art

Gunsmith influence. JB Weld is your friend.

Art

[TinkerTailor]

I use jb weld to fix bicycle frames that have loose headset cups. I use basically the same technique. Never thought of doing it here. Nice one.

[thunter9]

lol glad that your using the right size rivet for the job

[jlrowe]

Yeah, the cap side usually will produce a divet or raised slightly in center. That is why I always make sure i use the post on the side you would see most because it will mostly always be the cap that will show the defect the worse. The pics show what i use. I ordered these setters from ohio travel bag and they work well. One is the small cap tool and the other large cap tool. The anvil is just a little tandy anvil think i got with snaps.

[kevinp]

This problem will disappear if you use a hand press rather than a hand setter and hammer, not sure why but it will

[thunter9]

yrs ago when I use to work at Pedro Luggage , repairing luggage . we used different rivets , split rivets and also and also the two part rivet with the diamond cap. they're more sizes to keep on hand but finish up nicer we use to buy from ohio bag 35 years ago.

[TinkerTailor]

This problem will disappear if you use a hand press rather than a hand setter and hammer, not sure why but it will

Force and angle. People tend to hit the tools too soft, on bouncy surfaces and without the tool being vertical. If it doesn't work they hit it 3 more times softly, with the tool a different kinda crooked each time.

Using a hammer and punch seems like a pretty rudementary skill, however there is alot of technique that can be learned. Holding the tool straight, on an immovable hard surface, and hitting it dead straight with the right force, and there is no reason why a hand setter can't do the job a press can. It is metal, if you hit it hard enough it will move. If you hit it crooked, it will move crooked. Squishing a tube from the end takes alot of force. That is why building pillars are cylinders...Try and squish a toilet paper tube from the ends.....If you do not use enough force to squish the post, but enough to deform the cap, this is going to be the result. If you keep tapping away, eventually the post will fold over and the rivet will end up squished to the side.

I give the setter one small tap to start and seat the cap onto the rivet, and then hold the tool down tight and BAM with a 3lb steel drilling hammer. I worked on oil rigs, I can swing a hammer. I also don't care if my setter gets mushroomed out by the hammer. There is alot of steel there to grind away when it does. If it gets too short, hold it with vise grips. This is also a good trick if you are a finger smasher........Big hammers smash fingers big time.....

Stamp tools=Wood/poly/Mallet, Copper rivet=BabyBallPein, Rivet set=BFH

I like to picture the setter going right through the leather and all the way through the anvil and bench when i set rivets. It never does but the bang makes the dog jump.....Since i started using this technique I have never had a rivet fail and only had to drill one for a deformation.

Edited December 11, 2015 by TinkerTailor

[zuludog]

Surf YouTube for 'setting snaps and rivets', there are several videos. The one by springfield Leather seems pretty good

Edited December 11, 2015 by zuludog

[billybopp]

I have very few rivet problems anymore, since I bought a rivet press. Mine is from Tandy when it was on sale a year or two ago, as well as most of my dies on sale. Knowing what I know now, though, I'd probably buy a Goldstar, since the dies are much cheaper.

That being said, there are still occasions when I have to set with a setter and anvil, when the rivet is too deep for the throat of the press. For those, I put the anvil on my granite slab, placed on the floor for the most solid striking surface that I can muster. A nice big dead blow hammer helps to insure that as much force as possible is transmitted to the operation.

Bill

[TinkerTailor]

I have very few rivet problems anymore, since I bought a rivet press. Mine is from Tandy when it was on sale a year or two ago, as well as most of my dies on sale. Knowing what I know now, though, I'd probably buy a Goldstar, since the dies are much cheaper.

That being said, there are still occasions when I have to set with a setter and anvil, when the rivet is too deep for the throat of the press. For those, I put the anvil on my granite slab, placed on the floor for the most solid striking surface that I can muster. A nice big dead blow hammer helps to insure that as much force as possible is transmitted to the operation.

Bill

The other thing is, alot of people are afraid of using big hammers. With a bigger hammer, you can you can use less force on the tool, because the weight is doing the work. This means not needing to lift the hammer as high or swing it as fast, increasing control and accuracy. If you have a little 12 oz hammer you have to swing it from so high and with so much speed, good luck hitting the tool straight. Control and accuracy are lost as force increases when using too small of a hammer. Obviously there is a limit and a 25lb hammer is NOT easier to control than a 25 oz one, the upper limit of control is really a user strength issue.

As i stated as well, technique is everything. I can swing a 8-10lb sledge/splitting maul accurately one handed, with either hand, over either shoulder due to technique. I used to have to swing alot of hammers when i worked in the oilpatch training roughnecks on oil rigs.They would struggle, and I would come over and show them this, and say what are you talking about, its not that hard and then walk away. ....... I am under 200lbs, and under 5'10", not a big guy by any stretch. Plenty of bigger stronger guys have lost beer bets when i pull this trick out for a splitting wood challenge at a camp fire. It is kinda like being a pool shark..

[thunter9]

rivets ,,,, split ,hollow, speedy , single cap, double cap , copper with a burr so they tell us they all have a job to do. so when do you use what ?