Did I Buy A Lemon? Techsew Problems

[pokerinot]

I bought a three year old Techsew GC2603 this summer. It was skipping stitches so I brought it in to the Techsew guys for a timing adjustment as well as an basic once-over as the machine was new to me. Right after I got it back, it sewed about 6" and then the timing went again. I haven't been doing much work because of my day job schedule but managed to get my Christmas presents made without problems. Now I am trying to make a jacket for someone and the machine again is skipping SO many stitches. I can do a little tack properly but anything beyond that is random. I can't seem to get along with this machine! It doesn't help that all day at work I sew on a SunStar machine that never needs a second look, an adjustment, or anything, no matter what type of leather I throw at it. My current problem is mainly during topstitching, going through about 3 thicknesses of light-medium weight chrome tanned leather. I'm worried I'll never be friends with this machine!

[Wizcrafts]

What causes skipped stitches?

Skipped stitches can be caused by any or a combination of the following defects:

1. Early or late arrival of the hook, above the eye of the ascending needle.
2. Excessive clearance between the gears that drive the shuttle and hook.
3. Insufficient foot pressure that allows the leather to lift with the needle.
4. A burr on the tip of the needle.
5. The needle is too large for the thread. The oversize hole causes a loss of back tension on the loop, causing it to dissolve prematurely.
6. Too much travel and/or tension on the check spring, causing the loop to dissolve prematurely.
7. Overly twisty thread that causes the loop to twist away from the hook.
8. A burr, or other defect at the tip of the hook.
9. Intermittently binding top thread.
10. Intermittently binding bobbin thread.

[pokerinot]

Thank you Wizcrafts! I am making my way through this list, unfortunately none of the simpler problems seems to be it! I guess I have a lot to learn about hooks and shuttles and check springs(I can't find mine!).

Thank you Wizcrafts! I am making my way through this list, unfortunately none of the simpler problems seems to be it! I guess I have a lot to learn about hooks and shuttles and check springs(I can't find mine!).

[pokerinot]

What causes skipped stitches?

Skipped stitches can be caused by any or a combination of the following defects:

• Early or late arrival of the hook, above the eye of the ascending needle.
• Excessive clearance between the gears that drive the shuttle and hook.
• Insufficient foot pressure that allows the leather to lift with the needle.
• A burr on the tip of the needle.
• The needle is too large for the thread. The oversize hole causes a loss of back tension on the loop, causing it to dissolve prematurely.
• Too much travel and/or tension on the check spring, causing the loop to dissolve prematurely.
• Overly twisty thread that causes the loop to twist away from the hook.
• A burr, or other defect at the tip of the hook.
• Intermittently binding top thread.
• Intermittently binding bobbin thread.

Have you ever come across the feeling that the foot moves the material slightly forward as the needle enters? Could this be related? This machine always has had that feeling but it wasn't addressed by the service I had (I didn't mention it specifically). I haven't seen this happen on other machines.

[gottaknow]

I assume you paid to have the machine adjusted. If so, take it back and ask them to fix it. Take the stuff you want to sew on as well as your thread. It's not unreasonable to expect something to work. They should also watch you sew to make sure it's not something you're doing.

Regards, Eric

[pokerinot]

Thanks Eric, I actually just did that in the end after calling them because an additional problem sprung up on top of everything else. The earlier repair was under warranty.

[TinkerTailor]

Sounds like a tech may not have lovingly caressed one of the adjustment bolts with nearly enough torques and she slipped, Captain.

Needed 2.5 more torques at least......

Edited February 6, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[pokerinot]

Sounds like a tech may not have lovingly caressed one of the adjustment bolts with nearly enough torques and she slipped, Captain.

Needed 2.5 more torques at least......

O NO! will request all kinds of torquage this time!

[Techsew Ron]

We're on it. No timing issues - Just needed to re-install the needle with the groove facing the right direction. In this case it was a bit twisted.

Most of the time skipped stitches can be attributed to improper needle installation, a bur/bend on the needle or improper threading.

Ron

I bought a three year old Techsew GC2603 this summer. It was skipping stitches so I brought it in to the Techsew guys for a timing adjustment as well as an basic once-over as the machine was new to me. Right after I got it back, it sewed about 6" and then the timing went again. I haven't been doing much work because of my day job schedule but managed to get my Christmas presents made without problems. Now I am trying to make a jacket for someone and the machine again is skipping SO many stitches. I can do a little tack properly but anything beyond that is random. I can't seem to get along with this machine! It doesn't help that all day at work I sew on a SunStar machine that never needs a second look, an adjustment, or anything, no matter what type of leather I throw at it. My current problem is mainly during topstitching, going through about 3 thicknesses of light-medium weight chrome tanned leather. I'm worried I'll never be friends with this machine!

[pokerinot]

Thanks Ron, I'll phone at my lunch break. It seems like that can't be the only problem. I tried a few needles and put them in straight! If the one that was in the machine was rotated a bit I think it's because I threw it in there on the way out the door because I had put a number 20 in at some point when trying different things (and I wanted to give you the machine with my preferred settings). Does this account for the hook making contact with the needle? And the stitch length problem? Anyway I will be calling in a couple hours!

[Darren Brosowski]

It is frustrating for the sewer and the tech but 98 times out of 100 the needle or threading is the issue!

1/100 is something simple and stupid

The other 1/100 leaves everyone wondering WTF is going on here.

[Cascabel]

Very often, I have seen descriptions of how to orient the needle describing that the "scarf" should be facing a certain direction. This can be confusing, and a great many novices are not sure what that means. A better and more easily understood description would be that the thread should enter the needle from the side of the needle with the long groove. This is a true description no matter which sewing machine you are using, be it industrial or domestic. This even holds true for the hand sewing awls.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Cascabel

[TinkerTailor]

Sounds like a tech may not have lovingly caressed one of the adjustment bolts with nearly enough torques and she slipped, Captain.

Needed 2.5 more torques at least......

We're on it. No timing issues - Just needed to re-install the needle with the groove facing the right direction. In this case it was a bit twisted.

Most of the time skipped stitches can be attributed to improper needle installation, a bur/bend on the needle or improper threading.

Ron

Good to see it is back sewing. Learning curves can be a monsterous hill to climb.

I am surprised it even sewed the first six inches with the needle 180 degrees out...

I made the guess that when the machine skipped after a few inches of good sewing, as explained, that a bolt on a thrust collar or something may have been snug but not tight and slipped once the machine is loaded up. I guess i guessed wrong.

Plus it was an excuse to slip in a vague star trek reference...

Ron, theoretically, Is there any way a needle could turn in the holder while sewing if it was not tight enough? Like could the thread tension do it, or perhaps a twisted point needle winds its way around with each hole?

[Darren Brosowski]

I always tell customers to look at the thread guides as it gives a great indication of the direction you should thread the needle.

The next point is to show them the hook and how it works with the needle.

Between the two it explains where the scarf and the long groove in the needle should go.

Very often, I have seen descriptions of how to orient the needle describing that the "scarf" should be facing a certain direction. This can be confusing, and a great many novices are not sure what that means. A better and more easily understood description would be that the thread should enter the needle from the side of the needle with the long groove. This is a true description no matter which sewing machine you are using, be it industrial or domestic. This even holds true for the hand sewing awls.

[pokerinot]

Thanks everyone who replied! I actually sew leather clothing for a living at my day job (aka not on this machine) so I promise I know how to thread/ load a needle. That being said, I was hoping that I had been putting my needles in wrong by 180° as that would be so obviously fixed (and that they had somehow missed that the two other times I brought the machine in with the needle...not likely).

I just spoke to Techsew - they have fixed the problem (needle was slightly rotated?) so that wasn't really a problem in the end (except that I can't believe that I've put the needle in slightly off every single time since xmas....) and they have fixed the stitch length dial which was the final straw causing my weepy phone call to them on Friday.

I'm excited to get working so hopefully the sewing machine gods smile upon me and all of you too! I will report back next week just to end this thread on a happy note (hopefully!!!)

Also, just want to say that as I said I am very familiar with the operation of industrial sewing machines but obviously not the mechanics and inner workings and I really find it impressive that so many people on this forum can fix their own machines. I hope never to live far from a professional, myself!

[gottaknow]

We teach our operators what a scarf is, and that it will always face the hook, and the thread will always come out of the scarf. The reason I do that is because there are times when I'll use a 62x57 needle that actually has the long groove spiraling around the needle. Even though a 62x57 is a chainstitch needle for a Singer 300W, it has the same dimensions as a 135x16 and 135x17 and I'll use it on a lockstitch machine if the situation fits. It's also much easier to get a needle inserted straight if you look at the scarf and not the groove. On most two needle lockstitches, I'll have the operator rotate the scarf slightly towards the incoming hook since the hooks rotate in the opposite direction. This is especially true on the left needle where the hook can untwist the standard left twist thread whereas the right hook twists it tighter.

Regards, Eric

[dikman]

TT, I thought I detected a subtle reference to a certain Mr. Scott (I hear there's a new movie due out soon, and also that there's a remake of the original series happening).

Darren, based on my recent experiences, I would say your percentages are spot on. (It's amazing what a difference it makes when you thread the needle from the correct side ).

[pokerinot]

Hi everyone, I'm finally updating now that I've figured out how to add photos (one of the jacket almost done and one of the finished state with accessories)

The machine has been okaaayyy... I'm not completely thrilled. I got through most of the jacket with no problems but on the FINAL seam -a topstitch that closed the collar to the rest it basically reverted to skippy style. I tried that seam a few times (making a perforated mess of the leather --luckily it is hidden when worn but UGH) and then just went to my work to close it up on my machine there, which sewed it without hesitation and very predictably.

I also have to sit down with the machine and have a stern talking-to about my expectations re: zipper tape. It skipped stitches EVERY SINGLE TIME I sewed crossways on zipper tape.

Since then, I have sewn two bags with no problems (crossed fingers) but I have two more jackets coming up soon and I really need to sort out it's hesitation to properly sew uneven and multiple layers! That is part of sewing! And zippers!

Lastly, I am attaching a photo of the bobbin case... It seems weird that there's a thread crossing the outside of it and I can't seem to make it go away... I have a feeling this is part of the problem. I've tried loading the bobbin with the thread in "p" and "q" orientations. When I got the machine back from Techsew the bobbin thread was not doing this. Am I loading it wrong?

Bonus: visual evidence of my frustration with skipped stitches highlighted!

[pokerinot]

Here's a better picture of the bobbin -I pulled the thread a little to make it more visible

[Wizcrafts]

I am not going to address any of the mechanical problems your machine may or may not have. Rather, I am going to pass on my own solutions to similar problems I encounter when I sew jackets and install zippers that have double sided leather tape.

1. Increase the alternating height of the feet to the maximum before the bottom of the needlebar hits the top of the inside foot, at the height of the thick collar seams.
2. Increase the pressure spring action of the outside presser foot. You need to force the spongy layers of garment leather down all the way.
3. Switch to titanium coated system 135x16 needles. Titanium resists the glue on the tape clogging the eye.
4. Use a size larger needle than you think is necessary. The larger eye lets the thread move a little easier through the goop.
5. Increase the travel on the check spring to keep tension of the top thread until the needle completely pierces the material.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Wizcrafts

[Wizcrafts]

Of the above listed items, #1 is important when you change height from the collar and other major seams to lesser thicknesses. The outer foot stays up on the higher layer and if the inside foot doesn't have enough alternating distance, the bottom layer will lift with the ascending needle and skip stitches.

[pokerinot]

Thank you again, Wizcrafts! I am doing this dance all over again and your comments are very helpful. 

Do you or anyone have an explaination on how to increase the alternating height of the feet and how high they should be lifting? The outer foot lifts quite high but the inside one doesn't. 

Also, I mentioned before the weird feeling that the material was being pushed forward as the needle went in. Techsew said they looked at it but I just took the face plates off and watched it and the feed dog very clearly shifts forward when the needle has just pierced the leather. Could this contribute to skipping stitches? I've backed off on the inside presser foot pressure because it seems like the pressure causes the shift forward (doesn't move when the foot is raised) but that didn't really work.

Also the bobbin housing is making a god-awful racket so there's that too..... 

Anyway, long day, long rant. Thanks to anyone who is still reading  

 

 

[Wizcrafts]

Pokeriknot;

It appears your machine is in need of expert repair. Take, or ship it to an industrial sewing machine dealer. If it is under warranty, send it to the dealership who sold it to you. If you dink with it and make it worse, the cost of dealer repairs will go way up.

[pokerinot]

Thanks Wiz,

It is a Techsew machine and I have taken it to Techsew several times! I'm trying not to dink with anything that I don't understand, and I think I'll bring it along to another repair shop when I check out skivers next week... It seems to especially hate this leather so I'll avoid it from now on! 

Your check spring tip helped a bit, I think.

[pokerinot]

For anyone who might be looking at this with similar problems:

I just want to finish out this topic. My machine was able to be fixed. I brought it to a very good mechanic (luckily my city has these!). They were appalled at the state and quality of the machine --they weren't even sure they would be able to fix it. Luckily they could and it has been working as well as it can for the past couple months. It was some kind of gear issue deep within the machine that was causing all sorts of bits to wiggle when they shouldn't. I paid 2.5 hours of labour for a total of $150 which was a deal after an time-unspecified rate of $175 which I paid to Techsew for partial repairs, bringing it back 4x, and being told the problem was that my needle was slightly rotated.

For what it's worth (and keep in mind they sell used machines so they have skin in the game) they do not recommend buying cheaper machines made in China. The steel is generally very low quality and they say that sewing at 25 hours/week the machines are designed to last for five years. (Mine is younger and with much less sewing time). They told me they sold one Chinese skiver to a factory and had to give a full refund after six months because the machine was toast. 

If anyone in or near Montreal is thinking of buying a machine, PM me and I'll give you their contact details because I can't recommend them enough. I also bought a brilliant little fortuna skiver from them which I love!