Contributing Member JLSleather Posted March 8, 2017 Contributing Member Report Posted March 8, 2017 1 minute ago, JimTimber said: And they're just easy to make and sell quick to make a buck. Well, yeah..that IS teh short version. When I make a "pattern", what I'm actually making is the STITCH ALLOWANCE, which can then be used to make a multitude of holster styles from that one "design". Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members JimTimber Posted March 8, 2017 Members Report Posted March 8, 2017 Pancakes have been around a long time, and I've had no love for them for as long as I've been into guns. Has nothing to do with your patterns JLS, it's the "one size fit's nobody" nature of the design that I can't stand. If you're making the holster out of leather, not plastic; take the time to do something nice, something that fits the gun well and is pleasant to use and look at (if it's going to be outside the waistband). That's just my perspective. Same reason I hate kydex - looks like butthole no matter how good you form it, and it doesn't function all that great either. I can tolerate a lot of ugly if something works well. Quote
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted March 8, 2017 Contributing Member Report Posted March 8, 2017 12 minutes ago, JimTimber said: the "one size fit's nobody" nature of the design Yeah, with ya. I've always said.. We do not make holsters in 'medium' or 'large'. If it fits many guns, then it fits none (a pail will hold your pistol, but doesn't FIT it). One fella showed up, said he wanted a holster that would fit gunA AND gunB... so I handed him a plastic walmart bag that was laying there. Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members Josh Ashman Posted March 8, 2017 Members Report Posted March 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, JimTimber said: Pancakes have been around a long time, and I've had no love for them for as long as I've been into guns. Has nothing to do with your patterns JLS, it's the "one size fit's nobody" nature of the design that I can't stand. If you're making the holster out of leather, not plastic; take the time to do something nice, something that fits the gun well and is pleasant to use and look at (if it's going to be outside the waistband). That's just my perspective. Same reason I hate kydex - looks like butthole no matter how good you form it, and it doesn't function all that great either. I can tolerate a lot of ugly if something works well. Hey Jim, good to know that my holsters are "crappy", easy to make, and that they don't work well. Let's see some of your work pard. I'm curious to see what a nice, functional holster looks like. JLS, as I noted earlier, technically I agree with most if not all of what you've said. However, I don't have any of the problems you have noted that will be caused by 50/50 pancakes in the holsters I've made and sold. Of course, since Jim was helpful enough to point out that they are all crappy and don't work well maybe I just don't know the difference. Quote
Members JimTimber Posted March 8, 2017 Members Report Posted March 8, 2017 You can do whatever you want, not everyone's going to like it or agree with you. Like I already said, I don't know why anyone buys a traditional pancake holster, but they sure are popular from a sellers perspective because they're easy to make. My holsters? Well, since I've only owned a sewing machine capable of leather for just under a month - I have to get partially naked and pull this one out. The pic angle is deceptive, that's actually vertical with a fully loaded (12+1 230gr) magazine in it and held in by nothing but leather. Been using it daily for 6+ years. My design, my leather, my glue, my vacuum forming, but I had two different guys sew it for me. Got any 6 year old pancakes to show off? Can they hold a gun without a belt to tension them? Quote
Members JimTimber Posted March 8, 2017 Members Report Posted March 8, 2017 This one doesn't get as much use. #2 ever made. Again, someone else's stitching but I did all the rest. Quote
Members Josh Ashman Posted March 8, 2017 Members Report Posted March 8, 2017 Jim, I don't have any pictures of 6 year old pancake holsters being held upside down. As I noted earlier, after several years of use I have about retired a 50/50 pancake I made myself. I think it had about 3 years of use when it went out of daily rotation. Last I checked it would still hold a loaded 1911 upside down, but just barely. I may check again when I get home out of curiosity. Having a holster hold a pistol upside down isn't the "end all be all" of whether or not it's functional, at least it isn't for me. I would say that function is king, however, form also comes into play in my opinion. All of the problems that have been stated about 50/50 pancake holsters haven't been an issue for me in holsters I've made for personal use or ones I've built to sell. I'm a hobby maker although I've been at it for many years, so I've built more than a few of these types of holsters. Most of them are owned by people I know personally, family and friends. So far no complaints. Speaking personally, if it were about making a quick buck I'd skimp on my edges. That would save me a bunch more time than building them flat backed, or flatter backed. As you noted, not everybody will agree or like what someone else does and they certainly don't need too. All the best, Josh Quote
Members JimTimber Posted March 8, 2017 Members Report Posted March 8, 2017 The reason I've never retired this one is because it's still comfy as all get out and does the job. It's got very little, if any, sentimental value to me but it still works. Even now as I'm getting my sewing up to speed, I don't have an imminent need to make another one to replace it, although I probably will just because I've never been happy with the "drunk" shoe repair guy's stitching on my hemmed edge. First ever hemmed edge I did (not trimmed after sewing at all): It's just a personal distaste for the 50/50 pancakes, nothing to do with anyone's quality of work. Lord knows there's a lot of big name makers producing the things, but then Glock sells a TON of guns and I can't stand those blocky things either (partly because their made in such a way to maximize ease of production and lack any semblance of grace in their lines). We all value different things differently. Quote
Members longun45 Posted March 9, 2017 Members Report Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) I have seen this problem solved on youtube and the Gentleman's name is Sam Andrews from Florida. In building the Pancake, which he calls a saddle style holster. The outside leather is longer than the inside layer, not a lot only maybe 1 - 1 1/2 inches or so. This gives the desired curve and the sight channel is boned in. He also uses a tensioner in the holster so the retention can be dialed in. His videos have taught me lots about leatherworking. Sam has been working in leather for about 40 years and does excellent work. I have been working to figure out how much extra to add and have the patterns made but not built one yet. After the next show I may get to. Edited March 9, 2017 by longun45 Quote
Members Josh Ashman Posted March 9, 2017 Members Report Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) Here it is new on Oct 24th 2013, and here it is as of last night, and upside down, I'm plenty happy with my results. All the best, Josh Edited March 9, 2017 by Josh Ashman Quote
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