BEST LEATHER TO USE

[raysouth]

I read so much about the different types of leather, weights of same, and more, about best leather to use and leather not to use for dog collars, dog leads, harness for pets, etc; and would like to know the feelings of those on the site as to what they really feel is best to use for these products.

I have heard of some folks using bellies, others that say no bellies, some saying backs and others questioning that as well. Bellies stretching to much, backs sometimes a bit rigid, and more.

Would really like to get some opinions as to best all around leather to use, methods of fastening, and any other information that might be of benefit for those of us making such items. I have made a few without problems and have addressed a few safety issues that involve strength of leads and fasteners used for various collars and leads. I may be correct in my thinking, based on my experience but others I'm sure, have great information they could share with us on the site.

Hope I receive a lot of response and know that there are many of you that are very talented and have produced some magnificent items that I hope you will share.

 

God Bless.

 

Ray

[Mike516]

I make dog collars.

I have been using 6/7 ounce sides, but I'm having an issue right now with cracking around the buckle, so until I figure that out (see the other thread regarding that issue) I don't feel comfortable recommending a leather type/quality/thickness in case any of those have something to do with it.

For fasteners I have been using nickle or brass plated rivets, and just started playing around with copper. I see some collars that the buckle and D-rings are sewn in, but I don't do that so can't speak to strength.

[Trox]

I use vegtan backs and something shoulders. Mostly leather that has been waxed, prepared for outdoor use. Like bridle leather, fat leather and such. Sometimes I use natural vegtan for tooling and dyeing, but remember to add leather oil after or before the dye. The alcohol dye dries out the leather and makes it crack easier. I use all kinds rivet in dog leads, but sew inn all bucles/rings in collars and harness. I have experienced cracked leather around buckles and D rings too. However, that happened with some bad quality chrome tanned white colored leather I used once. I do not recommend using bellies for such work, to stretchy and weak. It's not up to the stress.  You better sew in the buckles and D rings if the leather cracks around the rivets, the dog collar is subject to enormous stress every day. All kinds of weather conditions etc, it must be made of the best materials. Most tanners sell special leather for such use, ask for it.

Good luck

Tor 

[raysouth]

Thank you Mike and Trox, for providing some information.

I hope others take an interest and respond as certain that there are a ton of ideas, thoughts and more, on this site.

I have seen issues with different fasteners at times and sure others have experienced the same and hope they share some info.

Thanks again and God Bless.

 

Ray

[Mike516]

Fasteners were always my biggest concern. But I figured what good is it to get an ulcer worrying about rivets or whatever before anything happened.

Can a rivet pull out? Sure it can. Can thread fray and come apart? Of course. I don't know that there is a truly foolproof way to fasten a buckle onto a collar. The only thing you can do is; in good faith do the best you can.

The only solution I could think of was to put in my listings to contact me if there were any issues and I would fix it.

[OLDNSLOW]

I am looking to start making dog collars as well and look forward to what others are going to add, but from my perspective I would think anything of a soft metal nature would be a risk to use.  Both brass and copper are a soft metal that I would think be prone to braking much easier under a load than say a stainless steel Chicago screw, I can also see where someone would argue the fact that a Chicago screw can come loose.  However with a Chicago screw and the use of red lock tight the likely hood of a screw coming loose is almost impossible, there is also a product called ( lock set ) I think it is called that wont come apart unless certain procedures are used to brake it loose. I would think the screw would have a tendency to be better under the stress than the other metals.  As for the leather I have wondered about the same issues, but then I saw a product that is available from Weaver that is suppose to tighten up belly leather making more usable in more areas, but not sure about how that would actually work.

[JerseyFirefighter]

20 hours ago, Mike516 said:

I make dog collars.

I have been using 6/7 ounce sides, but I'm having an issue right now with cracking around the buckle, so until I figure that out (see the other thread regarding that issue) I don't feel comfortable recommending a leather type/quality/thickness in case any of those have something to do with it.

For fasteners I have been using nickle or brass plated rivets, and just started playing around with copper. I see some collars that the buckle and D-rings are sewn in, but I don't do that so can't speak to strength.

What type of leather are you using? Veg tan, latigo, bridle, harness? A good oiled veg tan, or wet molded veg tanned or latigo bend well for strap ends. If all else fails, skive. I have limited experience with harness, however that is my next foray into my stock world. 

[JerseyFirefighter]

On 3/27/2016 at 4:38 PM, raysouth said:

I read so much about the different types of leather, weights of same, and more, about best leather to use and leather not to use for dog collars, dog leads, harness for pets, etc; and would like to know the feelings of those on the site as to what they really feel is best to use for these products.

I have heard of some folks using bellies, others that say no bellies, some saying backs and others questioning that as well. Bellies stretching to much, backs sometimes a bit rigid, and more.

Would really like to get some opinions as to best all around leather to use, methods of fastening, and any other information that might be of benefit for those of us making such items. I have made a few without problems and have addressed a few safety issues that involve strength of leads and fasteners used for various collars and leads. I may be correct in my thinking, based on my experience but others I'm sure, have great information they could share with us on the site.

Hope I receive a lot of response and know that there are many of you that are very talented and have produced some magnificent items that I hope you will share.

 

God Bless.

 

Ray

I am by no means the end all be all of suggestions, however as far as dog collars, for ready pre-made colors you cannot go wrong with latigo. Bridle is also an option, but the tanneries I have spoken to label latigo bit more durable to the elements, and bridle being a bit easier to the touch with a little trade off to being less resilient than latigo . With that, if you want to tool, or use special colored leather not offered in the drum dyed world, natural veg tan from Hermann Oak or Wickett and Craig will be in your wheelhouse. Dont be discouraged from using their utility or B grade leathers since you are cutting straps. The amount of waste a few scars or bites would be negligible compared to $ per sq ft and a little easier on your pocket. Hope this helps. . 

 

Edit: Full disclaimer, I use chicago screws with a dab of blue loctite for all of my buckle and dee ring attachments. A leather failure can be attributed to lack of care. Id rather trade off a few screw slots on the inside than to have the customer blame a potential failure on the fastening of the collar. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by JerseyFirefighter

[Mike516]

17 hours ago, JerseyFirefighter said:

What type of leather are you using? Veg tan, latigo, bridle, harness? A good oiled veg tan, or wet molded veg tanned or latigo bend well for strap ends. If all else fails, skive. I have limited experience with harness, however that is my next foray into my stock world. 

I use veg tan.

Where do you get your chicago screws from if you don't mind me asking?

[zuludog]

Quote

 

I don't make dog leads myself, but I have a friend who does. He lets in some nylon webbing inside the fold over part  or loop (is there a correct name for this?) and sews it back to the main part of the lead, so that the stitching is 4 layers - 2 of leather and 2 of nylon. The slot for the buckle prong is made with a sharp knife and then sealed or fused with a hot nail

Remember when sewing straps to make two parallel rows down the edges of the strap, but not across it

[JerseyFirefighter]

20 hours ago, Mike516 said:

I use veg tan.

Where do you get your chicago screws from if you don't mind me asking?

Either from Ohio Travel Bag or Springfield Leather (tandy brand). Ive learned a really hard lesson in trying to buy etsy or ebay screws in bulk. There is a very noticeable comparison in quality. As much as the hardware gives me sticker shock, I know they will look good, and they will last. Dont cheap out on hardware!

[Mike516]

48 minutes ago, JerseyFirefighter said:

Either from Ohio Travel Bag or Springfield Leather (tandy brand). Ive learned a really hard lesson in trying to buy etsy or ebay screws in bulk. There is a very noticeable comparison in quality. As much as the hardware gives me sticker shock, I know they will look good, and they will last. Dont cheap out on hardware!

Ah ok thanks. I think I'm going to give stainless a shot. Been using copper rivets and they take a little to get used to. But they're strong and don't rust. Stainless won't rust either so a good alternate. Plus extra bonus to stainless is the color goes with silver hardware. The copper may tend to turn off customers a little. Options are always a good thing to have.

 

[JerseyFirefighter]

I use copper rivets for my radio straps. Stainless steel and solid brass with plating is also a good option. They also sell brass rivets and burrs which work well to compliment brass hardware projects. 

[Mike516]

Is the only difference between stainless and regular steel that stainless won't rust? Are they both equally strong?

[JerseyFirefighter]

I believe there are tensile strength differences between the two, however unless you are making life safety equipment you should need not worry of the differences in strength. 

[Mike516]

Ok, thanks. I think I'll look for stainless anyway.

 

[Mike516]

On 3/28/2016 at 7:36 PM, JerseyFirefighter said:

 

Edit: Full disclaimer, I use chicago screws with a dab of blue loctite for all of my buckle and dee ring attachments. A leather failure can be attributed to lack of care. Id rather trade off a few screw slots on the inside than to have the customer blame a potential failure on the fastening of the collar. 

I was looking into Loctite and they say you have to use primer on anything plated. Have you found this to be the case?

[Steveg52]

55 minutes ago, Mike516 said:

I was looking into Loctite and they say you have to use primer on anything plated. Have you found this to be the case?

Loctite sets up in the absence of air and the presence of metal ions. Some metals cause the hardening process to occur faster than others, especially copper. Loctite will setup without the primer, I have never used it for any applications. If you want to speed up the  hardening process, simply rub a piece of copper wire in the female threads of the chicago screw prior to assembling the fastener, the primer is simply as carrier with copper infused into the mix.

[Mike516]

14 minutes ago, Steveg52 said:

Loctite sets up in the absence of air and the presence of metal ions. Some metals cause the hardening process to occur faster than others, especially copper. Loctite will setup without the primer, I have never used it for any applications. If you want to speed up the  hardening process, simply rub a piece of copper wire in the female threads of the chicago screw prior to assembling the fastener, the primer is simply as carrier with copper infused into the mix.

Great info, thank you.

They make a paste that comes in what looks like a chap-stick tube. I think I may try that. Do you use the red or the blue?

 

[Steveg52]

I use the blue for most items. If you use the red version, you may not get the fastener apart without heat. Get the liquid, it works better on small screws, and a small bottle will last forever. 

[Mike516]

Right, I was debating about weather I would ever need to unscrew one once the project is done. And although I used to fasten everything with no thought of taking it apart, I have come to the realization that you can never be sure about that. I have definitely learned the hard way that at times it is necessary to revisit a project for the strangest reasons. Now I always keep a cordless drill charged and on standby   :/

[Mike516]

I wasn't too sure how much I was going to like the look of the Chicago screws, I was really doing it for the function more than the aesthetics. But I have to say I really like them. They look really really nice. Got a bottle of blue loctite 243 for plated and stainless. Think I'm all set. Just have to try them on some collars

Thank you all for the suggestion.