Members GreenwoodBowcraft Posted April 6, 2016 Members Report Posted April 6, 2016 Good morning Folks, Please let me apologize for posting yet another request for help on this equipment. I do see and have read nearly all of the other topics, however it seems any posts before this recent forum visual upgrade/change are no longer showing pictures for me so I'm unable to see if my problems align with what others have experienced/resolved. I've not yet found the serial number for this machine but here are the details I have so far. It's a 29-4 Singer Cobbler's Patcher. It was my wife's great grandfathers, then her grandfathers, then her dad's who recently gave it to me. I suspect her dad never used it much. It sat in a corner. After bringing it home, I picked up some "Type-B" oil in all of the recommended places and let it sit for an hour before cranking the wheel. Within a couple of turns it was very loose and felt great. It was still oiled every few years when not in use, a habit her dad never got out of after having it drilled into him as the son of a shoe-repair man. I picked up a new shuttle, bobbins, the proper needles for both #69 and #92 thread from Landwerlan Leather Supply in Indianapolis. Following the instructions in the manual I threaded the bobbin and shuttle with brand new #69 bonded nylon thread. Then I threaded the machine using the manual instructions and the same thread. Initially, I was able to get the bottom thread picked up after a turn or two but it would not start even the first stitch. After about an hour I took a closer look at the needle and discovered that it was in backwards (the long channel on the #69 thread needle was quite easy to miss). After turning the needle around I thought I was in good shape. It picked up the bottom thread right away and I commenced sewing. After about an inch I noticed the leather was no longer being moved by the foot and the needle had started to hit the same hole a couple of times. I backed the needle out and attempted to move the piece of leather. It was FIRMLY rooted to the post as the top thread appears to have made several loops but never actually came off the shuttle. I ended up having to take an exacto knife and cutting the individual threads to free the leather. The shuttle had several remnants of top thread that needed to be pulled out before I could remove the shuttle. the bottom thread remained free and easily turned. I then pulled all of the thread back from the machine, rethreaded it, re-loaded the bobbin & shuttle and tried again. Same result. I've included a link to some pictures. One of how the machine is threaded on top. One of how it is threaded at the bottom (when I took the picture I had pulled the top thread out from the hole in the presser foot but it was otherwise in the appropriate location. I've also included a picture of what the bottom of the leather and the shuttle look like after a couple of stitches are run, and then the leather is cut free. Does anyone have any ideas as to what I can try next? Thank you for your time! Google Drive Album: Singer Machine Issues I apologize for not posting the pictures here directly, it's just that my phone takes extremely high res photos and I'm hoping to convey as much detail as possible. Quote
Members Constabulary Posted April 6, 2016 Members Report Posted April 6, 2016 (edited) That is a quite unusual foot you have installed, I actually never have seen one like this before. I assume that your foot has no teeth / is smooth on the underside right? That's most likely the problem. The 29 Class machines are top feed only machines and usually need a toothed foot to feed the material properly. You could also try to increase the foot pressure. Give the thumb screw on the right end of the blade spring a few turns and try again. But it may have an influence on the stitch length but anyway give it a try and check the underside of your presser foot. Edited April 6, 2016 by Constabulary Quote ~ Keep "OLD CAST IRON" alive - it´s worth it ~ Machines in use: - Singer 111G156 - Singer 307G2 - Singer 29K71 - Singer 212G141 - Singer 45D91 - Singer 132K6 - Singer 108W20 - Singer 51WSV2 - Singer 143W2
Members sandyt Posted April 6, 2016 Members Report Posted April 6, 2016 It looks to me tou need more top tension. And your needle plate looks very worn on one side. The hole is very big. Use the other side. Quote
Members GreenwoodBowcraft Posted April 6, 2016 Author Members Report Posted April 6, 2016 17 minutes ago, sandyt said: It looks to me tou need more top tension. And your needle plate looks very worn on one side. The hole is very big. Use the other side. Thanks, I'll switch sides. Do you mean I need my tension on the top thread, or I need to somehow increase the tension on the take-up leather? Quote
Members GreenwoodBowcraft Posted April 6, 2016 Author Members Report Posted April 6, 2016 23 minutes ago, Constabulary said: That is a quite unusual foot you have installed, I actually never have seen one like this before. I assume that your foot has no teeth / is smooth on the underside right? That's most likely the problem. The 29 Class machines are top feed only machines and usually need a toothed foot to feed the material properly. You could also try to increase the foot pressure. Give the thumb screw on the right end of the blade spring a few turns and try again. But it may have an influence on the stitch length but anyway give it a try and check the underside of your presser foot. Thanks for your advice! The foot has the teeth on the bottom (which I can see being problematic for anything like veg-tanned leather). After adjusting the block on the spring arm, the leather is moved quite well by that foot. I'll give that thumb screw a shot as well and see if that has any effect. The problem was only initially apparent after an inch or so of stitching when the leather stopped moving with the foot, but instead wanted to turn since it was rooted in place with the several pieces of thread hooked inside the shuttle. Quote
Members vonkas Posted April 6, 2016 Members Report Posted April 6, 2016 (edited) To start with, your machine needs to be adjusted to factory specs. With most of these kind of problems people miss this important point. Buying a used machine, which potentially is maladjusted and without printed instructions (factory adjustment manual), is the same as a machine with missing parts. After my first expensive lesson, I subsequently have bought machines cheap because people have given up working with them, but I knew that I could get a manual. Adjusting is not trivial even with instructions. It is utterly hopeless without. Period. By the way, I have had great cooperation from Pfaff for example in obtaining manuals. Of course there are plenty of sources to be found online as well. Edited April 6, 2016 by vonkas Quote
Members GreenwoodBowcraft Posted April 6, 2016 Author Members Report Posted April 6, 2016 2 minutes ago, vonkas said: To start with, your machine needs to be adjusted to factory specs. With most of these kind of problems people miss this important point. Buying a used machine, which potentially is maladjusted and without printed instructions (factory adjustment manual), is the same as a machine with missing parts. After my first expensive lesson, I subsequently have bought machines cheap because people have given up working with them, but I knew that I could get a manual. Adjusting is not trivial even with instructions. It is utterly hopeless without. Period. My intention is not to be rude.. I have attempted to be thorough in both my testing and explanation of the problem. Are you able to point me towards instructions you have found helpful in restoring a machine to factory settings? The machine wasn't purchased, it was just a gift. As far as her father was aware it worked perfectly when they stored it. Again, I apologize, I don't intend to be rude I just find that giving direction on how to do something, rather than just saying it's being done wrong is more productive and helpful. Additionally, I did in fact use the manual to set up the machine that is widely available online regarding threading, setting the needle, setting the shuttle, loading the bobbin, in addition to the incredibly sparse troubleshooting instructions. "What to do if your top thread gets tangled on the bottom of the work" is not a topic covered there. I also read nearly every thread on this site containing the words 29k and 29-4 and Singer Patcher. I haven't just brought a machine home, sat down, stitched for 4 minutes and come to the forums. I've spent nearly 8 hours troubleshooting, cleaning, and testing not counting the online research. Quote
Members sandyt Posted April 6, 2016 Members Report Posted April 6, 2016 Not very familiar with this machine. Played a few times with it a few years ago. I don't know how or if the take up lever can be adjusted. I meant just increase the tension on the top thread. That's the most obvious. Or am I missing something? If it doesn't work, just turn it back. It looks backed up pretty far. Quote
Members GreenwoodBowcraft Posted April 7, 2016 Author Members Report Posted April 7, 2016 13 hours ago, sandyt said: Not very familiar with this machine. Played a few times with it a few years ago. I don't know how or if the take up lever can be adjusted. I meant just increase the tension on the top thread. That's the most obvious. Or am I missing something? If it doesn't work, just turn it back. It looks backed up pretty far. As it turns out, that did go a long way towards helping me out. I'm now getting (about 2/3 of the time) very consistent and reliable top stitches. They are no longer getting hung up on the shuttle. This did present a new problem, the bottom stitch is laying almost flat against the leather resulting in very poor strength stitches. The manual for the machine indicates that can be the result of not enough lower tension. The little spring plate on the shuttle will not tighten at all. I can loosen it but it seems to be as tight as it can be. There is virtually no resistance to pulling the thread out. I wonder if I shim between the head of the tightening screw and the spring if I can get more adjustment to tighten it? Quote
Northmount Posted April 7, 2016 Report Posted April 7, 2016 Top tension pulls the knots up, bottom tension pulls the knots down. Too much bottom tension or not enough top tension will leave the bottom thread laying on the bottom, not being pulled up into the leather. Doesn't matter what type of lockstitch sewing machine you are using. They work on the same principles. The two tensions have to be balanced against each other. There should be some tension on the shuttle thread, but easy to pull, and smooth. I would first increase the top tension some more, unless it is difficult to pull the top thread through the tension assembly. Tom Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.