the back of my saddle is wearing the hair down on my horse...

[bruce johnson]

Traveller,

I think you get more movement from a thicker pad for most riding. It sits up higher, and will tend to negate the fit of bars where they need to sit to "grip". The only place I think a thicker pad is good is on saddles that are too wide and sit too low in the front and are going to have a forward jerk. The ideal fix is not to have one in the first place. The old theory of roping saddles need to fit low in the gullet has been kind of taken out of context by some. They want no more than two fingers of clearnace under that gullet. One way to get that is to make a wider gullet and the saddle does sit lower in the front. It also sits downhill (and some go so far as to call that a "level seat"), and brings another set of problems. If you use a 1" or thicker pad, and over/under pad to rope with, then it raises your gullet up more than that 2 fingers of clearance that has been pounded into our head we need. The simple fix for that is make an even wider gullet. Using a regular pad raises everything up as a unit, and it still sits downhill. Some of these trophy saddles we see out here are too wide for what the guys ride. The pads with the inserts in the front will raise that front up a little and still let the back sit lower. Not an ideal situation, but these guys won them and they are going to use them.

I also think that using two pads, and especially the cotton underpad may be an issue too. You have a slippage factor between those two pads besides the back and the saddle.

A lot of the hype on padding is advertising. Just because a national finals roper uses a particular pad doens't mean it's the one a trail rider, day worker, or barrel racer needs. They are not necessarily riding the saddle they endorse either.

[SITTINGUPHIGH1]

Joanne

You may be right. This may be a change in the horse. The way he moves or his back changing. It's hard to see his loins well. But what I can see is his loins look very muscled up. If this is something that just has devolved recently this my be your problem. You did say the rear shirt is raised up. Try setting the saddle on him without any pading. This may tell you more. You have to make sure were the sores are coming from the rear tree or shirt. I would check the whole saddle out. Make sure the saddle bars are touching from front to back. If the saddle tree is bridging in the middle that could cause some problems. Or the bars may be to long for his muscled up loins. Once you find the problem then you can work on the fix.

Mort

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Traveller,

Just a couple of words here. 1) you have gotten a lot of good advice from the others, and should be able to find the remedy in all that text. 2) From the pics of your horse, he appears to be an old "stock type" built horse with plenty of muscle. I like those types myself, however, a lot of today's production saddles are made to fit the general type which seems to be a cross between 1/4 and Thorobred. The problem is that most saddles are either too wide in the withers or too small in the withers, both can cause problems. Yours appears to be too wide for the horse from the pictures. Regardless of how comfortable a saddle is for you, if it dosen't fit your horse correctly it just doesn't fit! A good fitting saddle should fit giving even pressure throughout the length of the bars without any pad. I use a strip of linen about 2" wide, by 8" long. I place it under the saddle starting at the withers and pull it out slowly taking note of how much restance there is to it being pulled out. I do this at 3" intervals the whole length of the saddle tree, both sides. The resistance should be the same all over. 3) As for height at the gullet. when I make a saddle, I make sure that the tree I am using, has between 2 to 3 fingers of clearence between the withers and the top of the gullet when the tree is sitting on the horses bare back. Once the saddle is made with the skirts and all, this will equate to about 3 1/3 fingers to 4 1/2 fingers without a pad minimum. 4) Once a saddle fits like that, you don't need 4" of padding! I am exaggerating here, but, I will attach a picture of a horse that is built similar to yours with a saddle the fits properly, you will see that I only use a single pad and I use this horse hard on cattle, trails, and all around fun with no problems. 5) Lastly, the information about the saddle being laced to the end of the skirt is correct. There should be at lease 1 1/2" of free corner at the end of the skirts in order to keep it from pinching, and rubbing on the horses back. If you are trailing up and down hills and so on this is a real problem, remember ropers rope on level ground (your saddle is a roping saddle), and it doesn't effect that area so much, but; up and down hills and over logs and so on will cause it to dig into his back. I will also attach a pic of how it should look at the back of a saddle.

Hope this helps!

Happy Trails!

Bondo Bob

P.S. I lied about the just a couple of words!

[Traveller]

Thanks for your input, Bondo Bob! Finding a saddle to fit my stocky horse has been a bit of a trial. I don't think he's such an odd shape but production saddles always seem to have something about them that isn't quite right on him, and it's mostly the shoulder that I run into problems with, though he's worn hair away towards the back of the saddle before under both a handmade western saddle (not custom to him) and an English saddle (the English saddle tipped forward on him so didn't sit properly on his back; the handmade saddle rubbed him for reasons I never quite figured out).

This saddle is the first I've had on him that he doesn't object to and which sits flat on his back. I'm not tipping forward in the saddle, as has happened before, or backwards, so I think that as far as a production saddle goes it could be as good as it gets, though of course I'm always willing to stand corrected. I'll pull the laces out of the back and see how it goes. If the hair grows back, then I've figured it out. If not, well, then it's back to the drawing board.

I'm also going to get a wool pad for him. I already have a wool felt pad that digs into his side a little where it's cut away for the fenders so that won't do.

Thanks, everyone, for helping me out. You all are a great resource and I appreciate all the advice.

[Doug Mclean]

First of all, you have a nice horse. One thing that I can see from your pictures, he has a nice long shoulder and a short back which should make him a very athletic and useful horse for a lot of different events. But the short back will cause your combination of pads to rub some hair. Here's a couple of simple things to try. When I choose my pads I always make sure whatever I'm using on the bottom is bigger than the one on the top. Your saddle being a factory saddle, the skirts probably were'nt blocked very good when built. You could take the saddle in where it's warm over night at least. Soak the back of the skirts with a wet towel and mold them up over the back of the bars. Over years of use this will happen on it own. But where it is a new saddle and your having some problems it is worth a try. My personal preference in the winter time is a kodel blanket on the bottom. They make two weights of kodel. I like to take the lighter one and fold it over and sew sides and back. This makes a nice blanket that will conform to your horse's back after just a few rides and they are not to thick ( Have your local saddle maker or shoe repair shop make you one the size you want as some of the ones that are available aren't big enough. ) Then you should be able to use the felt pad that you have on the top. I have had horses that I rubbed the hair off every winter and it didn't seem to make them sore. They looked kinda funny. Come spring when they shed their winter hair the problem goes away. Now if your horse is getting sore and acting up then all of these suggestions can be filed. I have used this combo of pads for years. The kodel is not all natural but it sure gives a nice cushion for your horse back. You might have to adjust your top pad as for thickness. Hope this isn't too far off of the trail. Just a few more idea's

[Denise]

I have had horses that I rubbed the hair off every winter and it didn't seem to make them sore. They looked kinda funny. Come spring when they shed their winter hair the problem goes away.

This brings up a point I have wondered about as I have followed this thread. Is there any possibility that since he has a winter coat now you are seeing what has been happening all along that wasn't as obvious with a shorter summer coat?

[Traveller]

This brings up a point I have wondered about as I have followed this thread. Is there any possibility that since he has a winter coat now you are seeing what has been happening all along that wasn't as obvious with a shorter summer coat?

He doesn't get much of a winter coat, Denise, and the hair looks broken off, not flat, so I might notice it on a summer coat, too. He doesn't seem to object to the saddle but it can't be great for him.

I'm going to take the laces out of the back skirts today (I'm assuming that will be a straight forward sort of thing to do).

Thanks, Doug, for your thoughts, too!

[daviD A Morris]

Hi,

I have not had time to read all the post here in detail so someone else may have already mentioned this: That thin white pad on the bottom appears to be smaller in area than the saddle skirts. I believe that any padding needs to be larger than the skirts or the edge of it will cause a ridge under the skirts. Would be interested to hear the result of just going without that white pad.

Just my 2 cents worth.

dam

[hidepounder]

Traveller,

I've been watching this thread with great interest, have had to bite my tongue a couple of times, and now I'll add my two cents worth. I'm with Bruce & Mike & Greg & Doug on this...I don't think the laced skirts are the cause of the problem here. I think the problem is your cotton underpad. To begin with it's too small...based on the size of your felt pad, the underpad should be even with or extend slightly beyond your felt pad. Secondly it's cotton...I think this is not good. It should be wool or one of the neopreme type pads. Remember, we want our horses backs wet, not dry...that is why you see the wide spread movement to neopreme type pads and linings. In my humble opinion, however, in spite of all our technological advances....a felt pad over a doubled Navajo wool blanket is still one of the most successful means of padding a horse. I'm with Greg on the gel pads...I gave them to my dogs to sleep on!

You definitely need the 1" felt pad because your gullet will be too low on the withers without it...it barely clears now! You have short rounded skirts and no back cinch...so the back of your saddle is constantly lifting and settling when you are loping, stopping, etc. This motion is accentuated if you have a horse that rounds well and does not hollow out, which you've stated is the case. As your horse rounds his back, the rear of the the saddle rises (or your horse moves away from it) and your cotton pad lifts the hair, rubs back and forth, breaking it off. If you're too low in front, your saddle runs down hill...that means the rear of the saddle is elevated. Additionally, you ride with your feet under you, as oppossed to in front of you...nothing wrong with that...great if you rope...but that "seat" makes your weight a forward moving force, which is also contributing to the movement of your saddle and pad in the rear. I'm also wondering if you're cinched tight enough!

I think it would be really interesting to see if exchanging the small cotton pad for a double Navajo or neopreme pad would make a difference. If you were using a back cinch or if your skirts were longer in back I'd be more concerned about the lacing, there is no question that can be an issue...but in your situation I just don't think it is...I'd try the pad first! And please let us all know what you find out!

Bob

Edited January 4, 2009 by hidepounder

[greg gomersall]

Traveller,

I've been watching this thread with great interest, have had to bite my tongue a couple of times, and now I'll add my two cents worth. I'm with Bruce & Mike & Greg & Doug on this...I don't think the laced skirts are the cause of the problem here. I think the problem is your cotton underpad. To begin with it's too small...based on the size of your felt pad, the underpad should be even with or extend slightly beyond your felt pad. Secondly it's cotton...I think this is not good. It should be wool or one of the neopreme type pads. Remember, we want our horses backs wet, not dry...that is why you see the wide spread movement to neopreme type pads and linings. In my humble opinion, however, in spite of all our technological advances....a felt pad over a doubled Navajo wool blanket is still one of the most successful means of padding a horse. I'm with Greg on the gel pads...I gave them to my dogs to sleep on!

You definitely need the 1" felt pad because your gullet will be too low on the withers without it...it barely clears now! You have short rounded skirts and no back cinch...so the back of your saddle is constantly lifting and settling when you are loping, stopping, etc. This motion is accentuated if you have a horse that rounds well and does not hollow out, which you've stated is the case. As your horse rounds his back, the rear of the the saddle rises (or your horse moves away from it) and your cotton pad lifts the hair, rubs back and forth, breaking it off. If you're too low in front, your saddle runs down hill...that means the rear of the saddle is elevated. Additionally, you ride with your feet under you, as oppossed to in front of you...nothing wrong with that...great if you rope...but that "seat" makes your weight a forward moving force, which is also contributing to the movement of your saddle and pad in the rear. I'm also wondering if you're cinched tight enough!

I think it would be really interesting to see if exchanging the small cotton pad for a double Navajo or neopreme pad would make a difference. If you were using a back cinch or if your skirts were longer in back I'd be more concerned about the lacing, there is no question that can be an issue...but in your situation I just don't think it is...I'd try the pad first! And please let us all know what you find out!

Bob

Bob I will whole heartedly disagree with your take on neoprene pads being in any way useful with regards to a horse. you want padding that will wick the sweat away from the horses back not pads that trap heat to cause sweating. You live in a warm climate, try wrapping yourself in neoprene and going for a jog. Just my take on this. Greg

Edited January 5, 2009 by greg gomersall