Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 28, 2016 Contributing Member Report Posted June 28, 2016 Okay, I'm not seeing it. What exactly is "english point"? We see strap end cutter punches, carving designs, templates.. all saying "english point" but not a word about just what that is. Yes, I know people's tendency to be 'random', but that's too much like that "close enough" attitude I don't have So, is there a 'formula' for "EP"? Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members Martyn Posted June 28, 2016 Members Report Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) I *think* it's two intersecting catenary curves (the curve you get when you hang a chain), or a pointed parabolic arch. ... a pretty complex shape. Edited June 28, 2016 by Martyn Quote
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 28, 2016 Author Contributing Member Report Posted June 28, 2016 Yeah, must be -- I don't even remember that symbol on teh far left (and throughout) - if I ever used it. Still, looks like an equilateral triangle would be inscribed, so no need to do the math (WOOHOO). Set a compass to the width of the strap, draw an arc. Move to other side, draw same arc. Wah-Lah .. Not sure why different punch makers use different shapes, but maybe I just make my own shape and don't worry a bout thing1 and thing2 Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members Martyn Posted June 28, 2016 Members Report Posted June 28, 2016 5 hours ago, JLSleather said: Still, looks like an equilateral triangle would be inscribed, so no need to do the math (WOOHOO). Set a compass to the width of the strap, draw an arc. Move to other side, draw same arc. Wah-Lah .. I dont think it's that simple. I think the shape of the curve changes within the arc. The parabolic curve is close to, but not quite the same as a catenary curve and I think the EP is a pointed catenary - at least as far as I can tell. I'm not sure if there is actually any kind of standard for it though, it just seems to me that most of what is called an EP, looks most like a pointed catenary to my hyper-accurate, mark I eyeball. Quote
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 28, 2016 Author Contributing Member Report Posted June 28, 2016 Well, But if the distance across the bottom and the diagonal distance up the right side are the same, then by definition of a triangle, the third side would be the same. And an arc which passes through BOTH might as well be a radius (of a circle). If you're spanning 100 feet (or designing the St Louis arch) then you wouldn't 'fudge' the math, but in 1 1/2" (38 mm to you) the burnisher will eliminate that anyway But yeah, that was my question -- if there was A shape that was correct, or if "english point" is just a generally pointy thingie. Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members billybopp Posted June 28, 2016 Members Report Posted June 28, 2016 I have a couple of English Point punches in different sizes from different makers, and they are shaped slightly differently when compared side by side, so I don't think there is any exact definition of the shape. As belt end punches are pretty expensive, I only have the sizes that I use most, but can use a larger one for a slightly smaller strap if needed, with a little hand cutting to help the transition to the side look a bit more smooth. When I need a drastically different size, I mark both edges of the belt straight across and then use a compass scribe to mark the curves to the tip. It's close enough to look good, anyway! There are other fairly inexpensive tools available for marking your cuts such as this one. Also, gmace on here posted a quick little video about making an English Point end freehanded and by eye. I'd have to say, tho, that his hand and eye are probably more accurate than mine. I'll stick to punches and marking!! Bill Quote
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 28, 2016 Author Contributing Member Report Posted June 28, 2016 Yeah, I got templates for cutting -- never was big on those "end punches". But I want to have dies made for tapered billets and ranger belts, so IF there was a "right" point I'd have 'er done that way. I'll just lay out something that looks good. By the time you narrow the strap ends, point the tip, cut the radius where the narrows are -- two ends of all that -- a die that 'clicks' it done looks pretty sweet. Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members billybopp Posted June 28, 2016 Members Report Posted June 28, 2016 No doubt, if you're making a bunch a die is the way to go ... but I don't make a bunch of ... well anything! Bill Quote
Contributing Member JLSleather Posted June 28, 2016 Author Contributing Member Report Posted June 28, 2016 I learn the hard way apparently. Hand cut the first 5000 or so and THEN have dies ordered Quote "Observation is 9/10 of the law." IF what you do is something that ANYBODY can do, then don't be surprised when ANYBODY does.
Members plinkercases Posted June 29, 2016 Members Report Posted June 29, 2016 Just saw these in the latest Tandy flyer and think they are new. https://www.tandyleather.com/en/search/?sSearch=strap end template Quote "Oh my God....I beseech thee grant me the grace to remain in Thy Presence; and to this end do Thou prosper me with Thy assistance, receive all my works, and possess all my affections" Brother Lawrence c.1614-1691 plinkercases.ca
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