Working on Singer 269w8

[Nandy]

Hello team,

Fresh from another Industrial machine bid, got me a couple nice ones, one that seems a dud and this 269w8 bartacker that I am not sure yet if it is a dud or a nice one...

I know there is at least one 269 SME here, maybe more, so if they are inclined to help with their inside info, documentation and ideas that will be great. I know this is not a easy machine to work with but if I cant get it to work I can probably get my money back if I scrape it. However, the challenge is to get it running even if it is not the best machine for leather or jeans straps as i would have hoped.

First off, The air lines are not connected to anything other than to the pneumatic cylinder and the presser foot. I am sure there should be a manifold somewhere but I can get all that, just dont have info on how to hook it but I would probably figure that out too but rather have someone give me a hint... Why reinvent the wheel, right?. There are 3 air lines and 3 cylinders. What would be the pressure needed to operate those cylinders? 50 psi is generally safe to start. I have yet to investigate how these pneumatic cylinders are activated. The machine and the table are still in the Blazer...

I manually turned the pulley until I heard a click and could not turn any longer. I assumed that is the stop/start position as the presser is centered and I can actuate the presser foot and line cutter. I pull the lever with my hand and counted the times the needle bar dropped down while also watching the presser. It seems I counted 22 needle bar drops until the machine clicked and locked again. I was then able to actuate the presser foot and line cutter. I have seen many videos of the machine working and the way this machine does it's movements it really seems it is making a box stitch and not a bartack.  So either this machine has been altered to do a different stitch or maybe is half way the cycle. As I understood these are 40 some stitches machine but could be converted. If so then I am lucky as I could probably use it then.The feed cam had a number written in marker 69201-801-274 but I could not find anything online about that. Not sure it is a legit singer part number.

The pattern seems something like this.

I have a few stitches missing but I will check that better if I can tomorrow with a piece of cardboard or such. Kind of hard to map that in the Blazer...

Machine did not had the bobbin nor the bobbin case and the needle was bent so I ordered those already.

There is no pulley in the motor and of course, no belt but I am not worried about that, i have plenty of motors/belts. I have 220 and 220 3phase so I just have to look at the motor in detail...

 

Again, any help with those familiar with this machine will be great. I have no plan on spending 800 to 1000 fixing it but for the time being I love to tinker with it.

Other pics

 

Thanks!

Edited June 29, 2016 by Nandy

[Nandy]

I put a comparable length needle in the machine today and a piece of 3 oz leather to map the pattern better and the needle will go just a little past the needle hole bushing so I assumed the shuttle is out of timing but I had no "time" to double check since I was out of time (bad timing huh?! pun intended) and had to leave to my real job. Looking at the documentation there is a gauge that is used to set the tip of the shuttle in relation to the needle when the needle is at it lowest point. Does anyone knows what is that measurement? Im sure I can replicate that with my feeling gauges. I can also try to time it manually but I rather not do that if the gauge information is available somewhere.

 

Thanks!

[Nandy]

The narrative continues, lol! The needle was actually hitting the lower thread nipper so there is a chance the shuttle is timed correctly. Im waiting for the parts to arrive. I might get to get it running without a needle of course and see how it behaves if I can figure the pneumatics.

[Nandy]

Me again! I got the needles, bobbins and bobbin case today. I got it all together and used gutermann top stitch jeans thread. I manually turned the pulley and I got this:

You can see where the thread starts and ends. The bottom is a mess but I am not sure if it is a setting or me. I tried a second time pulling the bottom thread up to start and it end up with a mess and locking at the shuttle. I re thread it but left the bottom thread at the bottom and it worked fine so it might just be me. Not sure how the bobbin case needs to be adjusted so here is where someone with experience on this machine can help.

Bottom cutter is still disabled and I did play with the pneumatics and I think I have most of it figured out. There is a valve that should connect to the machine in my opinion but I have not figure it out yet.

Any input about the pneumatics will be great, photos will help too.

[Wizcrafts]

Nandy;

I moved this topic from its previous incorrect location. Although this is not a leather sewing machine, this section of LWN is as good as it gets for info on various types of sewing machines. Hopefully, someone watching this forum can help you out.

 

[Wizcrafts]

FWIIW, 26 years ago, I used to operate the same bartacker. It didn't have anything air operated. It was purely mechanical. There was a foot lift/thread cutting pedal and the GO pedal. We used it to sew Velcro onto Police gear made of vinyl. We ran #69 bonded nylon in the top and bobbin, very successfully.

[gottaknow]

The 269's aren't for the weak of heart. The two air cylinders can be operated off one pedal or two as Wiz described. One cylinder drops the clamp, the other engages the run cycle. If the machine makes stitches and the needle hits the knife, your knife timing is off, not the shuttle timing. When replacing the knife plate, you must engage the first two gears closest to the front of the machine. That sets the knife timing. You can alter the X and Y dimensions of the tack pattern as long as you keep it inside the clamp area. This machine had the cam changed to perform a specific task. Standard 269 trackers were either 28 stitch or 42 stitch. They were the standard of apparel manufacturing for decades. I still use several. 

Regards, Eric 

[Wizcrafts]

The part of operating a 269 that I used to like the most was the resounding CLANK at the end of each stitch cycle!

I'll tell you one thing about them; when you sew something onto something else with a bartacker, it ain't coming off by itself!

[gottaknow]

31 minutes ago, Wizcrafts said:

The part of operating a 269 that I used to like the most was the resounding CLANK at the end of each stitch cycle!

I'll tell you one thing about them; when you sew something onto something else with a bartacker, it ain't coming off by itself!

We still use a 28 stitch tacker for setting belt loops. Nothing better. 

Regards, Eric

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

On 7/29/2016 at 4:59 PM, gottaknow said:

The 269's aren't for the weak of heart. The two air cylinders can be operated off one pedal or two as Wiz described. One cylinder drops the clamp, the other engages the run cycle. If the machine makes stitches and the needle hits the knife, your knife timing is off, not the shuttle timing. When replacing the knife plate, you must engage the first two gears closest to the front of the machine. That sets the knife timing. You can alter the X and Y dimensions of the tack pattern as long as you keep it inside the clamp area. This machine had the cam changed to perform a specific task. Standard 269 trackers were either 28 stitch or 42 stitch. They were the standard of apparel manufacturing for decades. I still use several. 

Regards, Eric 

Your darn right!  My father back in the day was one of the few in the city of Philadelphia who could repair these 269s, as well as older 68 and 69 class machines.  Our current guy here is good with these as well.  269s, by any real standard, is a dead machine.  Nobody is going to want to invest a lot into a machine like this any longer.  We've thrown a way many of these, and other guys we know in NY have thrown a way a lot more than we ever had long ago, and nobody is missing them.

 

I personally know nothing about these 269W machines, and have never turned a screw on one.  Really, this machine is not my vintage, and I would be better off spending my time working with newer Jukis and Brothers in most cases.

[BFran]

Interesting info in here that as a business owner, kind of turns my stomach. Bar tackers that aren't drapery/buttonhole pattern are hard to come by in my isolated region of Canada. I'm looking at purchasing one second hand that was reconditioned by our local sewing machine guy. The current owner of it said it never worked quite right until she had it put in to be reconditioned.

Although apparently the machine is now in working order, I do have some serious reservations about bringing a brute of an "antique" into daily use in my shop.  A few questions I'd love to get some feedback on:

Is the 269 a concern for an operator who cannot service their own machine? 

Is the tacker capable of handling bonded 69 thread without silicone (or is their a reservoir for silicone at all?)

How much life is realistically left in an overcomplicated machine model like this one? 

[Wizcrafts]

10 hours ago, BFran said:

Is the 269 a concern for an operator who cannot service their own machine? 

Yes

10 hours ago, BFran said:

Is the tacker capable of handling bonded 69 thread without silicone (or is their a reservoir for silicone at all?)

I ran #69 standard bonded thread top and bottom in mine. The thread was made in Canada. There was no need for silicon.

 

10 hours ago, BFran said:

How much life is realistically left in an overcomplicated machine model like this one? 

Totally depends on how tight the mechanism is and how much wear is in the bearings and crank shafts.

[BFran]

12 hours ago, Wizcrafts said:

Yes

I ran #69 standard bonded thread top and bottom in mine. The thread was made in Canada. There was no need for silicon.

 

Totally depends on how tight the mechanism is and how much wear is in the bearings and crank shafts.

Thanks a bunch for this information. Wiz, do you think a 269 in good repair would be able to go through mil-spec webbing with marine bungee inside of it? I'm attaching a photo of a modern Juki bar tack (yellow) with my largest diameter bungee plus my current compound feed stitched product.

 

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, BFran said:

Wiz, do you think a 269 in good repair would be able to go through mil-spec webbing with marine bungee inside of it?

Yes, if it is in good condition and the pressure on the clamp is able to hold down the webbing. I'd use a #18 or #19 round point titanium coated needle.

Note, that the Singer 269w8 is a bartacker, not an X tacker. It only sews a 42 stitch bar pattern, up to 5/8" long, and from 1/16" to 5/32" width. The maximum clearance under the foot/clamp is listed as 5/8 inch, but is probably best limited to actually tacking 3/8 inch. It make the most wonderful CLANG at the end of each cycle. Lifting the foot should cut the thread for you and leave about a 1 inch thread stub. The needle system is System 1628/16x5.

If you haven't purchased it already, I would strongly recommend testing the machine, or have the seller test sew on it, before buying it. A video would be good.

[nylonRigging]

19 hours ago, BFran said:

Thanks a bunch for this information. Wiz, do you think a 269 in good repair would be able to go through mil-spec webbing with marine bungee inside of it? I'm attaching a photo of a modern Juki bar tack (yellow) with my largest diameter bungee plus my current compound feed stitched product.

 

I got a old 1957 , 269W141 that is tuned nice and a solid tacker. I originally bought it for doing line-sets and bar-tacking the finger traps on Para gear . I picked it up about 15 years ago from a outdoor gear shop going out of business ( machine was bad Out of tune ) not finishing it's stitch cycle,  but owner swore it was all complete and was still solid machine . So I took a gamble because the price was right . Had it worked over by a local Tech. and he went threw it and got it running like a top, and it still running strong today.  They are handy machine to have when yo0u need it .

Tackers are pretty intimidating 'to me' and they are a different animal for sure with flywheel and and timing stitch cycles, I NEVER would have jumped on buying the used Bar Tack if I did not have a good sew repair tech. at hand to set me straight.
.

[Devorah]

Hello!

Desperate  housewife here, lol. We have a Singer bartack 269 064  which is truly a mystery machine. 

Wrote to Singer who said  they no longer support older machines. 

ANY help would be most appreciated. 

AN464448  is the serial number. Machine has been "worked" ad nauseum.  

We could  not find a 269 model ending in 064.

 

 

[CowboyBob]

@Devorah Here's a couple of manuals for the 269 & yes they aren't the easiest machine in the world to work on.

class_269w.pdf 269w.pdf